“It’s a pop-punk record for grownups” — In The Studio with the Swellers

[Photos: Brett Gross]

In their role as Flint, Michigan’s entry in the pop-punk sweepstakes, THE SWELLERS have been on roller coaster as rickety as the one gracing the cover of their 2009 release Ups And Downsizing. The band—vocalist/guitarist Nick Diener, guitarist Ryan Collins, bassist/vocalist Anto Boros and drummer/vocalist Jonathan Diener—have experienced their fair share of highs (signing to Fueled By Ramen, touring with Paramore, recording with Bill Stevenson) and lows (record sales, mismatched tour bills, lack of acceptance from trend-based music scenes). They’ve taken all of that and channeled it into their upcoming fourth full-length, due later this year on No Sleep Records. We spoke with the Diener brothers on the eve of recording vocals for their new LP to get the scoop on what they’re creating, and what’s inspiring them nowadays.

One of the differences of being on a record label when you’re making a record is you have deadlines you have to meet. So, there is that outside influence kind of pushing you toward the finished product, and you might otherwise sit around and be perfectionists about it and not ever finish what you’re working on. Have you found yourself having those struggles making this record?

JONATHAN DIENER: We’re taking our time on it, but we set a deadline. Nick is very good at that kind of thing where he says, “Hey, dudes. I booked studio time. We’re recording here.” It’s kind of intimidating at first, but then you realize that it’s the fire under your ass where you have to get stuff done. But, we always do it when we’re, like, 70 percent ready with the record. We’ve been writing machines, so out of nowhere, “We’re doing it this time.” Boom! Okay. I think we finished writing the last song, technically the day before we went in. It was the right version of it where it was, like, that song wouldn’t have been there if we didn’t have that time set already. It’s kind of nice.

Right now we don’t even know when it’s coming out or anything like that, and we’re trying to keep telling ourselves there is no rush. There is no real crazy push to do anything right away, but we’re also responsible, so we’re trying to make sure we do stuff in a timely fashion. We’re kind of setting these artificial deadlines for ourselves.

The Swellers In The Studio 2013, photo by: Brett Gross | Alternative Press NICK DIENER: Yeah, we don’t want to rush it, but we also don’t want people to forget about us. Technically, we don’t have to put out a record this year. We don’t have to put one out next year, either. We’re trying to set it so that it makes sense so we can take our time and make sure everything is done right. With Good For Me, that one came out almost a month earlier than we wanted it to. There was no tour to coincide with it. It wasn’t even in stores the week that it said it was coming out. It was kind of a disaster, so I’d rather be safe than sorry and take our time. This has been the longest break we’ve ever had from touring, as well. We’ve been home for, like, six months, so the reason we do want to get it out as soon as we can is because we’re tired of being at home. We want to get back to work.

In terms of the recording process, on past records it’s been the two writing and demoing everything, and then you bring it to the rest of band, who then work on it, but it’s still very much the Dieners writing all the songs. Given the fact you’ve had this steady lineup for probably the longest in the Swellers’ career, are Ryan Collins and Anto Boros involved any more with songwriting than they were before?

NICK: It’s not so much if they are involved in the songwriting and stuff, but I think they’re almost producers in a sense where we bring them songs, and they’ll say, “I really like this part,” “This part didn’t really catch me,” “This whole song would kind of make the whole record drag” or “This one is really awesome. I think it would be better if we added this part to it.” I kind of feel bad, but Jonathan and I were so busy demoing and so involved in the writing process that our guys didn’t really hear these songs until three weeks before we hit the studio.

JONATHAN: They’ve been in the band long enough where they know exactly where our heads are at. They were both fans of the band before joining. We toured with their older bands, so we kind of have this mutual understanding of where they put their trust in us as far as what the songs are going to sound like. There was never a time where we sent songs, and they’re like, “Seriously? I don’t know. This kind of sucks.” It’s like, “Hell yeah, cool. I learned the songs. Let’s go jam them. We’ll work up stuff.”

You worked with Michigan producer Mark Hudson this time. I’m sure proximity played in to that decision, but I know he was also doing the last couple Saves The Day records too, and you were up there recently when they were recording. What was it that drew you to Mark specifically?

NICK: We’d always heard of Mark being an old, Flint [Michigan] dude, but he was also this guy who was kind of elusive. We never really met him; we never really got to hang out. We found out later it was because he was always on tour for the past 11 years we’ve been a band. He’s out with Against Me! all the time, Saves The Day, Thursday [and] Taking Back Sunday. He was with that whole slew of bands, and I didn’t process that during all of that he would come home, work on his studio. He moved around a lot, but now that he’s settled up in Fenton, Michigan—which is Jonathan and I’s old hometown where we went to high school—we’re just like, “This is crazy. This guy is recording really cool bands like Taking Back Sunday and Saves The Day, and he did Chiodos’ first record that was on Equal Vision. He’s in our backyard. Let’s go check it out.”

The Swellers In The Studio 2013, photo by: Brett Gross | Alternative Press

I know you’ve both spoken before too about how recording with Bill Stevenson for Good For Me was pretty much one of those dream-come-true, bucket list kind of things you never thought would actually happen. So, given that we’re now a couple years removed from that experience, and you just finished recording the bulk of your current record, what’s different between the studio experiences this time?

JONATHAN: I think the biggest part was we technically didn’t have a producer this time; it was very much Nick and I. The way we did the EP, it was this weird way of venting the way we felt, musically and I guess lyrically. We were writing in the basement, and we were like, ““We don’t give a shit. Let’s just go for it.” The way we’re doing this record is the same way. Because Nick’s job is recording records and I’ve been one of the songwriters forever, we finally got to the point where we’re like, “I trust our own judgment.” Whereas with Bill, it was really hands on in there where it was like—not ripping songs apart, but definitely getting in the room with us and playing parts with us and all that kind of stuff. So it was way more relaxed this time.

You mentioned feeling angry, musically and lyrically with these songs.

JONATHAN: Before, I was always like, “Yeah, you know everything is good, but I’m mad at the music industry.” Now I’m dealing with my own personal problems, and for the first time, I’m okay writing about strange encounters with potential relationships and all of that kind of stuff.

Nick and I are writing from each other’s perspectives on some songs, which I think is pretty strange, but we’re doing whatever is best for the song and we’re so like-minded in the understanding of each other to where we could finally… You know, it’s the same as when we’re playing: That chemistry is there.

When I was younger, I thought, “Man, we’re going to be as big as the Foo Fighters, and we’re going to do this…” Life kind of throws you these weird curveballs, but you eventually become okay with it for the first time, and you know, I’m only 24, but I feel like, mentally, I’ve matured so much in just the last year. I’ve learned so much about everything.

In The Studio with the Swellers 2013, photo by: Brett Gross | Alternative PressNICK: It’s kind of weird. We’ve always tried to write in metaphors. I think this is the first record where I got very blunt with what I was trying to say. It’s like, “Hey, what’s that song about?” and it’s like, “Dude, read it. Read exactly what the lyrics say, and that’s what it’s about.” So when I showed some of these songs to some of my buds, some of them aren’t really Swellers fans, some of them are, but it was cool because they’d be like, “A: That song is rockin’. B: Holy crap, I could relate to those lyrics 100 percent right now.”

It’s a very social record. I guess it’s a pop-punk record for grownups. Like dudes in their 20s doing that awkward “Well, I’m not in college anymore, I don’t really have a job-job [and] I want to meet a nice girl.”

JONATHAN: I think a big part of it was we kind of got forced into reality. You know a week out of high school I was already touring when I was 17, and now it’s like for the first time in my life I have a retail job. For the past six months, I’ve been working at Guitar Center, and I’m literally living off of 20 hours a week of minimum wage just so I can pay my rent. Whereas before, music was the thing that was at least supplying me to just pay my rent or whatever. So, now we got this kick in the ass to where we’re like, “Oh man, almost everything we talk about is so much more relatable because we’re living lives of actual people now.” You know, we’re not living in this goofy little dream world where we can do whatever we want. Reality is kicking in, so lyrically that is really showing through throughout the songs too.

The Swellers In The Studio 2013, photo by: Brett Gross | Alternative PressYou mentioned these are the most direct songs you’ve written thus far lyrically. Are you concerned they may be too direct? That they may be too to the point and might hurt or offend somebody?

NICK: These [songs] are pretty easygoing. I think even if you look at it a certain way, we’re definitely an underdog band. We’ve always been an underdog band no matter what. [With] bands like us, fans haven’t really heard of us yet [or] maybe fans don’t get us. It changes all the time. We’re like the Angus of bands. You know, “We’re still here, assholes.” That’s how I feel.

The lyrics that we have, they’re relatable to—we had a conversation about this yesterday—to the “leftover kids.” There are a ton of kids who come to our shows alone; they don’t come with their seven pop-punk friends, jumping on people’s shoulders. They come to the show completely by themselves, and they don’t even come talk to us after the show half the time. They’re very introverted people.

On the other side, we’ll have the punk fans, the pop-punk kids who are going off and getting wild. We have a wide variety of people, but I feel like these songs, even if you’re the most popular kid in high school, you’ll be able to be like, “Oh yeah, I can think of a situation where this makes a lot of sense.”

I should point out that I’m recording this interview on the B-side of the cassette tape I used to record my CM Punk interview. So, the real question is, which will we see first: a new Swellers record or CM Punk returning to the WWE?

NICK: You know what, I think [CM] Punk needs some time off. I think he needs to relax. I think he needs to get his head back on straight. You know, he’s a little bit injured right now. You can tell in his swagger, and we need to give him some time. He needs to just get his attitude back on track, man. I miss the old [CM] Punk, dude. I have his back; we got that straight-edge brotherhood. We have that mutual respect for what one another does, but man, you’ve gotta get your head on straight. You can’t be throwing around Paul Bearer’s ashes like that; you can’t be making fun of Jerry Lawler having a heart attack.

JONATHAN: Seriously, though, a lot of people always come to us and ask us about wrestling stuff and all of that, and they’re like, “Why the hell are you guys into wrestling?” But then you start realizing that these are a bunch of dudes that are taking rental cars and paying out of their pocket to go to these events and do all this stuff; it’s exactly the same as being in a band.

So, when we saw someone like CM Punk, where there’s this underdog dude filled with tattoos who loves punk rock, and he’s in a world full of a bunch of meatheads who don’t even appreciate this kind of stuff. They don’t even have a part of this counterculture; they’re just in their own world. It’s kind of the same as us where when you finally see someone do well from your world, it’s one of the coolest things ever. I think that’s how we are with everything.

One really strange thing I guess is the whole Fueled By Ramen thing. You look at the band fun. and us, our records came out I think one after the other. [Theirs] broke records and sold over a million copies, and it’s like, that’s so cool. If this was a few years ago, we’d be jealous as hell, but now it’s like, good people deserve good shit. The way I look at it is, we’ve changed our expectations of everything, but I hope one day if we do something cool, people will realize that we’re doing it because we were in the same world as everyone else. I would love to be the CM Punk of music.

NICK: The question really is, are you going to see CM Punk returning before a Swellers record or are you going to see Nick from the Swellers coming to the WWE? I think that’s the question that we all better ask. I’m up to 210 pounds, six feet three inches. I’m getting close to [CM] Punk, so he’s gotta watch out because there’s another straight-edge superstar in town. alt