Signals made their debut in 2018 with their first single “The New American Religion,” which was released on the anniversary of Wires… Since then, the band have dropped two more singles, including “The Vulture (All It Takes II)” and “Not If I Save You First.” The latter will be featured on their upcoming record, Death In Divide, which is due out later this year.

Read more: A Skylit Drive former singer is giving fans the closure they deserve

Due to distance, Jagmin and Kintz recorded the Signals album remotely. Despite that, the singer says it only made the whole process run smoother. Check out what Jagmin had to say about having more creative liberty and the duo’s upcoming album, Death In Divide, below.

What was your inspiration for starting Signals?  

MICHAEL JAGMIN: I feel like at a point A Skylit Drive abandoned a certain sound that made us who we were and went to other things for whatever reason. When you have five to six different people trying to be creative, everybody’s going to have their own take and spin on things and how they think things should be moved. Signals are where I felt like that band should have headed musically.

I always looked at the next musical venture that I did, ideally, would have been like a predecessor to Wires…[And The Concept Of Breathing]. That’s what fueled me to want to do Signals. As for linking up with Jonathan, that only became that much more prevalent and reality when I heard some of the music that he was working on. It was completely unintentional by him, but he just had a writing style that really lent itself to the sound that I feel it really should have headed toward.

Speaking of your writing style, what’s that process like?

We both do our own thing, really. I live in the Austin, [Texas], area. Jonathan lives in Anaheim, California. He’ll have pieces of a song, and then we’ll break it down from there. We’ll write to the parts that stand out, rewrite parts together as we can. We flew him out here two or three times throughout the whole process. We had a good chunk of things to work on—just things we felt collectively that we felt couldn’t really reconcile over the phone [and] needed to be in front of each other to figure out. A lot of it was really seamless. A lot of it was, “I really like this part. This totally speaks to me. I totally hear something. I’m just gonna roll with what I feel.”

What has the creation of the album been like? Have you been writing for it over the past few years?

It’s actually been a couple of years in the making. We had a single that we put out last year, “The Vulture.” We were working with a producer. He was here in the states, [and] we had plans of doing the album with him. With creative and personal differences, it just wasn’t the right mesh after we did the one song with him. It wasn’t looking like it was going to be the most fruitful process for everybody involved. We decided to pull out of that setup after the one single.

Read more: Hear Linkin Park’s unreleased ‘Hybrid Theory’ era demo “She Couldn’t”

There were a few months of a dead period where Jonathan and I kept writing. We didn’t have a producer to follow up with. With our particular situation of me being in Texas and him in California, it was hard to find someone who was willing to work with that distance. We weren’t going to be flying to the producer and tracking it with him. We were still going to be tracking it on our own. We’d have them mix and master it and go through all of that. Shan Dan [Horan, The Shadow Born Group] teamed us up with the producer Jimmy Alexander [Slaves, Awaken I Am], so that’s who we worked with on this one. He was just an absolute blessing to work with.

You, Kintz and your producer are all in different time zones. How was the recording process different remotely versus in a studio? Were there any advantages? What were the disadvantages? 

I guess the biggest advantage is that, personally, I’m used to being in a band where I felt pushed around a lot with a lot of things, pushed to do things that I didn’t feel were the right direction for my voice. I feel like I was able to really thrive in my own space. Everything was tracked from home, completely by myself. I was able to get all of the takes that I felt were the best possible ones I could get. If Jimmy felt like anything was lacking, he would tell me, “Hey, I need some more takes of this because you can do this better,” or “Try this differently.” I was always welcoming to do that with any producer. I think that’s probably the biggest benefit, having the freedom and the comfort of doing it myself and just doing it at my own pace.

There’s really nothing like having that creative freedom. 

With Jonathan, he’s been so easygoing to work with as well. He’s just insanely creative. He’s definitely like my other half where if I give him an idea to try, he’ll take that idea and make it better than what I heard in my head. It’s almost like a tattoo artist. You always have an idea in your head, and you think it’s the coolest thing ever. Then they draw something, and you’re like, “Well, that was way better.” And I’m like, “That’s why you’re doing this and I’m not.”

How did you and Jonathan come together and figure out Signals were something you wanted to pursue?

Honestly, it was a few years back that I just posted on my Facebook, just put a feeler out there, “Hey, I want to start writing music again. Anybody that has any stuff they want to send me, I want to start tracking on stuff.” I took a year or so off doing music when A Skylit Drive really hit that wall. I was just burnt out on it. I had no desire to do it. Then I just got that itch again. Jonathan was one of the people that reached out to me. We’d been friends, must’ve been ever since 2005, I think. It was right when I moved to California after I graduated from high school. He was one of the first people that I met. He and I just remained close friends. Jon always came out to the shows and hung out. His musical mind is just of a genius level. 

You’re both former members of successful bands. To go and do a whole other project must be pretty daunting. What are some of your goals for the band, not just in regards to your fanbase, but musically and personally as well?

My thought going into both things was never, “Oh hey, I want to be a millionaire doing this.” Of course, if your passion can pay your bills, that’s always nice. I learned a long time ago that it’s naive to think that way. That’s why I also have a full-time job. That takes up a lot of my time during the week, but then again, it gives me more mental freedom because I don’t go through the stress of, “Crap, this has to make me money.” Now, I can just enjoy the process of making music, putting it out there doing what we can to push it, be creative with our content and not think, “When is this going to pay me back?” That’s not my top priority. My priority is to enjoy the experience and create it with a close friend of mine, someone I think that’s always deserved a good shot. We just put our genuine all into it and whatever we get back is great.

You have released a few singles since 2018, with your most recent being “Not If I Save You First.” How long have you been working on music for this project? Can you give us any details for future plans in regards to releases? With the coronavirus, you can’t really go on tour, but do you have any plans for livestreams? 

We haven’t planned any livestreams, per se. That’s an entirely new hurdle, with not only everything going on and no touring, but also Jon and I being in completely different states. That’s definitely something that I want to go after. I guess we would lean more toward that as it gets closer to the album release date, which will be later this year.

As for the next plans, we have another single coming out Aug. 28. We’re doing all of the filming for that. Of course, with the pandemic, that’s also been done in a completely different fashion than anything I’ve ever done before. I’ve got somebody here. We shell out the idea for the video, the footage I would need to have and then somebody separately is out by Jonathan, and then they can film any of his stuff. Essentially, [it’s] just like we did the record, how all of our parts got mashed together and then [were] sent to a producer who actually was all the way out in Australia. We send all of our footage to Shan Dan. He’s the one who directs the videos [and] puts everything together. We just send all the footage collectively off to him, and then he adds in some of his vision, too. In the end, we’ve got a complete thought.

Read more: There’s a reason why you want a tattoo right now and you’re not alone

[The new single] is really personal to me. It’s about how our business manager embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars from us. Lots of frustration there. It’s the second single we’re going to be putting out off the record. There’s more that’s going to be coming. We’re just excited to keep the [album] process moving. We understand that this started over a year ago, [and]  then it got halted by changing directions with our producer. Now, it’s exciting that it’s moving as originally planned. 

Karle and Rodriguez previously dropped their debut single in June with “Sever,” which is the story of someone who can’t commit to a relationship but never wants to completely cut it off. They traded in post-hardcore riffs for airy synths, but much like their first band, the lyrics have a deep, personal meaning.

Read more: Vans has reimagined its classic checkerboard for a new collection

Their latest release features warm, emotional vocals backed by peaceful synths and cascading dips. Check out their otherworldy new track “Bleach” and the inspiration behind Hurtwave below.

You formed Dayseeker in 2012 and have been with them since then. Why did you decide to start a new project? What is Hurtwave allowing you to do musically and personally, and how did you both come together and figure out this project was something you wanted to pursue?

RORY RODRIGUEZ: Mike [Karle] and I have been close friends for the better part of a decade, and I had some softer music I wanted to try and put together, and he was really interested in co-writing some stuff with me and adding in his own production, percussion-wise. We started on GarageBand about three or four years ago and just started demoing out a lot of the songs that we’ve prepped for this release. We’re both really into pop and softer music. This is a perfect opportunity to have the ability to do that. It’s a different musical avenue than Dayseeker—some of this stuff would just be too out in left field to release through our main project. We’re happy to have Hurtwave in that regard. 

Read more: Dunkin’ is releasing its own pumpkin spice latte this year

Hurtwave previously dropped “Sever,” which was one of the first tracks you created with Mike Karle. “Bleach” has a serious backstory to it with beautiful synth accents highlighting the chorus, and it really enhances the meaning of the track. What was the process of writing this song? 

We actually wrote a very early version of ”Bleach” years ago, and we really reworked it within the last six months to try and match more of the synthwave soundscape that we’re going for now. I wrote it about an ex-girlfriend who dealt with feelings of suicide and depression. She battled in her head [about] whether or not she wanted to live on this planet for a huge majority of our relationship. I wrote it from her perspective and tried to channel her emotions and her turmoil through it all. And so I ended up rewriting most of the lyrical content, too. I think Mike and I have both grown as songwriters, so it felt appropriate to rework it into the version that we’re releasing now.

 In regards to singing, your voice has a lot of depth. It sounds very raw and emotional, much like how you sing with Dayseeker. Do you have to change the way you approach a song for vocals between Hurtwave and Dayseeker?

The funny thing is that Dayseeker are a lot more “belted,” vocally speaking. Hurtwave are quite a bit more mellow a lot of the time. Trying to tap into the softer or more delicate parts of my voice has been an interesting process. It’s been eye-opening in a lot of ways. I think there’s a certain frailty and raw emotion you can capture with the right “soft” vocal take as opposed to a really loud, belted one. I’m hoping investing myself in this project only helps my voice further for Dayseeker, as well.

Read more: Dunkin’ is releasing its own pumpkin spice latte this year

You’re working on dropping a series of EPs, starting with Night Therapy 1. How do you decide on what you’re going to release first, and which tracks will be included on a specific EP? Is there a theme for each one, or is it just what you see as being a good fit at the moment?

We just recognized that putting this first EP out with a single-by-single release would be easier, in terms of keeping people’s attention. With us being a new group, we have to keep in mind [that] we’re starting from scratch, and we didn’t want to drop a full EP out of nowhere and have very few people listening. We’re just trying to keep in mind which songs draw people in easily for some of the first ones. We have a few more experimental tracks that we’ll be releasing a bit later down the line once we have more of an established presence as a group.

So far, you’ve released very emotional and extremely personal songs. What are your hopes for this project? What do you hope your audience can take away from Hurtwave?

Honestly, a lot of the same hopes that we have for Dayseeker. We pride ourselves in the lyrical content being extremely personal, but [we’re] also hoping it can be extremely relatable because of that. For us, music was a safe haven when we were younger and didn’t have anywhere else to turn to. So that’s always our primary goal with everything—just making sure that while we’re creating these songs, they may offer peace and comfort to those who are suffering.

Perfectly timed after bursting the walls of Cleveland’s very own Grog Shop this week, Panic! At The Disco return with “Say Amen (Saturday Night),” the first new music from Brendon Urie and co. since the January 2016 release of Death Of A Bachelor.

READ MORE: Panic! At The Disco announce massive U.S. tour

Here Urie cultivates his yin and yang, professing a need for both redemption and party-hearty excess; think of it as a groovy-as-hell club banger played through the PA at a revival church. It is the first track from the sixth Panic! LP, Pray For The Wicked, slated for release June 22 (you can preorder it here).

READ MORE: Here’s the track listing for Panic! At The Disco’s new album Pray For The Wicked

When told that nothing quite screams “bottle service” like the new track, Urie roars with laughter. But what’s even funnier is that the Panic! CEO has claimed on many occasions he prefers to sit at home with his wife and pets in front of Netflix, yet he has the innate ability to capture the soundtrack to club night hedonism. “I’ve been a bar-hopper,” he readily admits to AP. “But I’m a homebody, mostly. But I really just wanted to write a club song.” When asked what his favorite club track of late is, he immediately responded with Drake’s “God’s Plan.” (“That video is so good!”)

When asked if the character in the song was looking for redemption or riding in the dining car of a hellbound train, Urie says he’s trying to reconcile his career as well as the vestiges of his Mormon upbringing. “There may be a sad underlying message, but for the most part, I’m just really taking back my tradition—I’m doing my job,” he says. “I’m not really religious at all. I mean, you could argue that I am. I don’t know: It’s something about the way I was raised that I can’t knock all of those traditions that I feel so positive about. On this one, I compare myself to the wicked, but do I consider myself wicked, as well? There’s a dichotomy there, for sure.

“All of these songs [on the new album] are very personal,” he continues. “They’re about things I’ve been pondering for quite a while, maybe I’ve held onto inside for too long. But I’d like to get it out.”

Panic! fans will recognize singer Lolo’s contributions to the new album, and there are some new associates coming on board, as well. Suzy Shinn, a friend of Urie and producer Jake Sinclair, has worked with Katy Perry and Carly Rae Jepsen among many others. She’s the sampled female voice on “Say Amen.”

Urie enlisted mega-talented bassist and vocalist Nicole Row to replace Dallon Weekes when Panic! hits the road in mid-summer. “I like to surround myself with people who create a vibe,” he says. “I’ve done some co-writes with people in the past just so I could stretch that muscle. It was fine; I’m glad I did it. But if I’m not relaxed enough to get into a creative space with people I’m not familiar with, then I’d probably get so frustrated with the song that I wouldn’t want to finish it. They help me push things along. With all my friends, we are brutally honest with each other. No holds barred, no diplomacy. My big rule for songwriting is the person with the best idea wins. As long as it’s an idea I feel so in touch with, that’s all that matters.”

Ideas are great, but having the voice to convey them is paramount. After hearing him hit those high notes near the track’s end, AP posits that the reason people never see Urie and Mariah Carey in the same room at the same time is because they are the same person. Urie laughs at the absurdity, saying, “I appreciate that! If I could do that, I’d be set! Mariah Carey’s got that whistle tone; she’s octaves above [me.] That note is crazy: We were recording it and Jake said to me, ‘Do an ad lib track.’ That was the first thing I did. I don’t know why I do that to myself. I was like, ‘Goddammit. Now I gotta keep it, ‘cause I like it.’ And now I have to do that nightly on tour!”

A few weeks ago, Urie was in his studio teasing fans on Instagram playing back those high notes with the warning that he’s going to get in trouble revealing them. When asked if there were actually repercussions, Urie replies with his it’s-all-good bravado. “Naaaah. I got a call the next morning that was something like [imitates industry-type afraid of coming off as heavy], ‘Soooo…hey, how’s it going? [Laughs.] So you did this thing… annnnnd…it’s totally fine, we don’t want you to think we’re coming down on you…but maybeeee a little more…mystique?’ I hate being told what to do, you know that,” he concludes, laughing. “It was just like a parent: ‘We’re not mad. We’re just disappointed…’

If “Say Amen” is any indication, there’s not going to be a damn thing disappointing about Pray For The Wicked. Urie isn’t ready to reveal a lot of specifics about the album, but he does admit to having moments where he feels like he gets in too deep, like on a ballad off the new album that he says was rough going at first and seemingly too difficult to pull off. (Don’t worry fans, it made it on there.) And that’s the irony: Urie is gregarious and always ready to share a laugh and a joke, but he’s also capable of melting your heart into a pile of quicksilver with tracks such as “The End Of All Things” and “Impossible Year.” There is a curiosity as to whether he’s micromanaging the creation of atmospheres or if he’s working out some things in his head. It’s almost as if he figured how to get paid for his therapy via his art.

“I think both of those things are valid,” he says, shifting his tone. “I like it to be honest. I do think I need that catharsis. It’s something that is true to me: There are so many moments where it’s like, ‘If I don’t cry on this song, then it doesn’t go on the album.’ If I feel something that visceral, I can’t let that go.

“If I’m being completely honest and forthright, I’m only as good as the people I am surrounded by,” he continues. “The people I surround myself with are the ones who bring me up. They impart to me that ‘you can fail and fuck up over and over again. We’ll be here to catch you, show you what you did wrong and teach you how to do it right. Let’s do this together.’ And I’m doing that for them, as well.”

Over the next 10 years, he proved it. Though he spoke with AP again just two days later (a never-before-seen excerpt from that late 2004 conversation follows), during the next decade, Lacey essentially swore off in-depth interviews and all but went silent as he began writing and then rewriting Brand New’s third album and eventual masterpiece, 2006’s The Devil And God Are Raging Inside Me. Which, when you think about it, is just as big a part of this record’s legacy as anything.
After all, that resounding silence (both before and after Devil And God’s release) attracted a cult-like following that often pored over the album’s every detail. Were the lyrics to “Limousine” really about a drunk driver who killed a 7-year-old girl not far from Lacey’s childhood home? (The answer, sadly, is yes. The victim’s family later appeared on Oprah.) Did the band really scrap an entirely different album with Modest Mouse producer Dennis Herring? (That answer is… well, more complicated.) But in the end, the fewer answers these questions had, the more fans obsessed.
Even now, what can you actually say about The Devil And God that will even do it justice? When it was released, there hadn’t been an album this good at heady bombast since Radiohead’s OK Computer and, frankly, there hasn’t been one as good since. It’s arguably the best guitar rock album of the past 15 years and, sure, all of this is what you would expect to read in a “best of” blurb like this. But to this day, nothing beats simply putting on The Devil And God, turning it up full blast and hearing that same despondent young man fighting for his place in the world. 

AN EXCLUSIVE EXCERPT FROM AP’S 2004 INTERVIEW WITH FRONTMAN JESSE LACEY

When we spoke the other night, we talked about the pressure that has come with recording this new record on a major label. But we’ve spent most of tonight just talking about music. I get the sense that you really love having conversations about music.
Oh yeah, definitely. [Smiles widely.]
But the conversation we had the other night—that had to feel like the antithesis of why you got into music in the first place.
There are certain things that you have to take into account when you’re doing this. Just thinking about, “Okay, this label invested in us and they want to do something with the music we give them.” What we give them they are going to have to market or get played on the radio. [But right now] a band like Modest Mouse has just gone platinum. That’s amazing. That’s a band I’ve been listening to forever. The first EP they put out, my friend played for me [in high school]. I never, ever thought I would hear them on the radio.

“Maybe, just maybe, we can do whatever we want and not fail.”

But that’s what’s interesting about the place you are in. Recording for a major label right now doesn’t have to be terrifying. It can be the complete opposite.
Absolutely. I think there are other times where it wouldn’t have been like that. If we would have come out six years ago, we probably wouldn’t have signed to a major label. This kind of music, it wasn’t what people were looking for. But now labels are paying a lot more attention. It’s totally exciting. Maybe, just maybe, we can do whatever we want and not fail. There are so many things that have worked for us recently that we had no idea would have worked, so let’s just go. Let’s gamble and see.

Read more: Here’s what the little girl from Brand New’s iconic ‘The Devil And God’ album artwork looks like now

The path that this record seems to be taking right now is both very experimental and then, I hate to say it, but also very accessible.
That’s fair. [As we’ve been writing this album] some days we’ll find ourselves totally deviating from what we were doing the previous day, but instead of pulling ourselves back, we kind of run that course and see where that goes. A lot of times that takes us to this place that is so far away from what we expected. But it has been very beneficial for us to take that journey. We never had that opportunity before. That’s hands-down the best thing about what’s going on right now.

“There is way more responsibility that comes with being respected than being famous.”

With the last record [2003’s Deja Entendu], you didn’t necessarily become famous but you did become a lot more respected. What difference does that make for you?
I think I would have been much more insecure with fame—but that really didn’t happen to us. As much as it might have seemed like Deja propelled us, it propelled us in a very gradual sense. I’m obviously much happier with it happening that way. We are very conscious with the way that it could have gone. If that record had sold a million copies and at every show most of the crowd was waiting for us to play [our hit single], I would probably hate it more than anything. But that drives us in a certain way. We are honestly not thinking about this record in terms of writing singles. We’re still talking about these songs in terms of an album. I feel like that is very important to us. There is way more responsibility that comes with being respected than being famous.
Do you understand why that is?
Having an image and being recognizable—that is a very large part of fame and that is something that we try to avoid. We’re not all over MTV; we’re not all over magazines. That has allowed us to stand on just the music. I really hope that we remain respected. There definitely are bands that do jump out fast. Everyone thought Radiohead was a one-hit wonder but then, my God, look at what they accomplished. ALT  

To find this and other interviews about classic albums from 2006, pick up a copy of AP 338.

You just returned from a quick tour with D.R.U.G.S. in Europe, how was it? Which show stood out the most to you and why?

To say that the tour and shows were amazing is a complete understatement. Every one was sold out, and there wasn't a night that we played to under 2,000 people. The highlight for me personally was the sold out Brixton show with 5,000+, and although we were support, it seemed like every kid knew every word. It was almost like a U.S. tour, where I could barely hear myself singing because the crowd were singing along so loudly. I lost a total of 7 shirts during the tour, all of which were ripped off of my body when I walked along the barricade and on the crowd. It's a tour I'll never forget. I can't wait to get back over the pond and play for such thankful and enthusiastic fans (which we plan on doing soon!).

Now that you're home, you've announced a new solo tour. You really seem to enjoy doing these—in what ways?

Yup, it's true—I know that I said I would wait to do more solo touring until next winter, that it would be “a while” before I began doing them again, but I just can't stop myself from it. To me, there is nothing better then playing to a group of people who truly understand you and your message. These are the people that come out to my solo shows. I did close to 14 of them last year, 12 of which sold out, and I can't say that there was even a moment when I wasn't glowing due to the overwhelming support from those attending. I always like to choose intimate venues and remind myself how lucky I am to be doing what I do. It's an amazing way to connect with fans and those who have supported what I do for years. I also enjoy pulling surprises from my back catalogue of songs I've written or been a part of and playing them in fun new ways, or maybe simply interacting with the crowd on a much smaller scale. I consider it more of a “come on in, I'll sit on the couch, and play for you in my living room” sort of vibe… if that even makes sense. Nostalgia without having to “fit in” best describes these shows.

Your solo tours always have a theme to them, so is there a theme behind this one?

There is. While I'll be announcing more themes for each individual show, such as maybe dressing up funny or making a memory that people won't forget, which is basically a ploy to make sure that people check their insecurities at the door, this tour is much more centered around the things I typically say in between songs. The band I'm bringing along with me, which will be announced soon, also represents standing up after struggling. Anyone that has attended one of my solo shows knows that I enjoy speaking of my downfalls and things that I've overcome. I try to be as clairvoyant as possible, reminding them that they're not alone in their flaws, mistakes and faults, and that your future is all on your shoulders.

Green’s departure was a tough reality to face for Ortiz and vocalist Craig Mabbitt. During this series of interviews they both emphasized their love for Max and their collective hope that he’d get better. “I love the kid. He's such a nice guy and he's super cool and everything, but your own inner demons work against you [sometimes] and there's just not much I can do to help him anymore,” Ortiz continues. “That relationship just can't work anymore and I can't put my personal feelings into mending that relationship, because I still have a band to think about, you know?” Mabbitt chimes in, “We cancelled tours for the guy and the shitty part about it is that for someone so self-destructive, he's also the nicest person. So it's a weird combination, because what do you do? You just feel horrible no matter what happens.”

What Ortiz and Mabbitt can publicly say about Green is a legal grey area—Green’s lawyers worked out a legal split with the band earlier this year so Green could release new music sans contractual obligation. What they do offer, however, are stories of tour cancellations, last-minute fill-ins and onstage tribulations. “We brought him [Max] back for the Uproar Festival and it was the biggest, most hyped tour we've ever been a part of,” explains Mabbitt. “We bring back Max but now Monte doesn't want to be on the road [with him] so we have a hired-on guitarist, Max back, and then during the tour Max flies back to L.A. to take care of a DUI and you know, here's another thing but we were just so used to it at this point. [But then] he just doesn’t come back; he said he didn't feel welcome, that everyone was watching him like a hawk when it's like, ‘Come on dude, obviously we're gonna be watching you—it's because we care about you.’”

“Luckily this band Black Tide was on Uproar, and their bassist had filled in for us numerous times before when Max was unable to perform, so luckily he was there to fill in but it was just a really gnarly point for us especially with only me and Robert being there. [After that] we played this festival in the band's hometown of Vegas, and I remember going up there onstage and being like, ‘What's going on, Vegas? This is the band's hometown where Escape The Fate originated—well, Robert did,’” Mabbitt continues, laughing.

“The first headlining tour we did for our self-titled album, obviously it was the full band, two weeks into it Max shows up 20 minutes before our set and we go on stage, and you can tell something's off. We get to the last song, the lights are going, and within the last 45 seconds I notice something's missing and I go ‘Where the Hell is Max?’ Like 45 minutes later there was a video up on YouTube of just him passing out [onstage]. You watch it and it's like he's not even playing bass, he's kind of standing there and stumbling and then all of a sudden he just kind of hunches over, our stage manager runs up and he just falls on the ground.”

“This event happened after we had cancelled a European tour so he could spend some time in rehab,” Mabbitt goes on. “We rescheduled a few shows, but we had already put the band on hold so many times before this. The tour before that we'd hired a—I can't remember what his official title was—but he was like a sponsor and he just stayed with Max all the time and talked to him, like a sober counselor almost. We had so much other stuff happen prior to this that our label and management flied out one night for an intervention. We just tried for so long, and after that night we just realized, you know, he's not gonna be getting better being out here on the road. We’d just had so many things come to us—we're on a headlining tour for our new album with Interscope, we’d just signed to a major label and we're already canceling tours, this label is already wondering what the hell is wrong with us.”

Both Ortiz and Mabbitt seem to be at peace with Green’s exit, and according to Mabbitt, they’re still on good terms—Green even attended a recent show by the band in Los Angeles. “I still send him emails saying, ‘Look man, just because you're not part of the band anymore doesn't mean you've lost a friend,’ and we're still on good terms—we actually played House Of Blues Sunset and he was there in the crowd and I was like, ‘That is so weird, what are you doing here?’”

“Basically right now for the band we're just cutting out all the shit we don't need anymore,” explains Ortiz. “We're no strangers to drama; we've done it all before and [know] what does and doesn't work and we tried to keep something going that wasn't working for so long. I feel for our fans but the reality is it just couldn't go on any longer with Max.”

Interview: Bryne Yancey

So you’re going on a solo tour pretty soon. Is this your first ever tour of this kind?
Yes, I can’t wait. Yeah, it’s my first tour alone. I didn’t ever tour before Hey Monday either, so yeah, it’s my first by myself.

And you’re excited?
I can’t wait, yeah. I just met the guitar player I’m taking out who’s playing with me and he’s awesome. The people I’m bringing with me are just musicians that have had a lot of experience and are into playing music and touring, so it’s going to be a really fun time. The band Darling Parade, I’ve actually never met them, seem really excited, too. And Stephen Jerzak and everyone involved are excited. It’s just going to be acoustic. I’m going to have a guitar player, an acoustic bassist who’s also going to play guitar sometimes, I’m going to be playing guitar and a percussionist, so it’s just going to be really intimate. Sort of like a storytellers type thing where I’m going to be interacting with the crowd a lot and [with] no production, no in-ear monitors or anything; just really raw.

How was the response to the holiday EP?
It’s great. We haven’t really gotten anything back from it yet like how many we sold, but the reaction was incredible. I think everyone was pretty stoked on our cover of “O Holy Night,” so that was pretty cool. It was a really last minute thing. We basically put together everything, like where we were going to record it and who we were going to record it with, in probably three weeks. But we’d had a few songs in our back pockets for a while, so it came together really quickly. It was just really fun. It was basically the last thing we all got to do together and it was kind of emotional at the end, but we had a good time.

Are you planning any sort of solo recordings?
Yeah, definitely. I actually have a ton of demos and a lot of Garageband recordings that I don’t want to show anyone. I love the songs and I hear a lot of potential, but I don’t want to release them as-is. I would love to record an album and release that. Whatever I release, I want it to be completely finished and I want it to be the debut breakout album. I don’t want to just release a few EPs and everything like that. I want it to be a big thing. I definitely hope it’s this year. That would be the best-case scenario, but the reality of it is I can’t really give an exact answer.

The setlist on this tour is going to be a mix of solo stuff and Hey Monday stuff, is that correct?
Yeah, it’s going to be about five Hey Monday songs and five of my own. I have a feeling since it’s going to be such small venues and I can pretty much hear what everyone’s going to say, I feel like there is going to be a lot of requests and I’m just going to try and play it by ear and play whatever the kids really want to hear and whatever the fans ask for. It could end up playing 15 songs or 11; I’m not sure. It’s going to be a majority of Hey Monday songs because that’s what they know.

Have you thought about doing any cover songs, either on the tour or on a new record?
Yeah, there is a cover song that I am really excited about. I am told not to give it away yet, but that one is going to be cool. I’m kind of just thinking of random songs. I’ve always wanted to cover “Hopelessly Devoted To You” by Olivia Newton-John. It’s kind of a really corny song, but I just love the melody. With Hey Monday, it wasn’t so loose. Basically every tour was us playing second with a 30-minute set and I didn’t waste it on a song that none of the kids are going to know. I want to cover “Only One” [by Yellowcard] in L.A. and have Ryan [Key] come out and sing with me. I’m hoping to have someone from another band come out and do a guest appearance thing, so that would be cool, too.

Hey Monday is currently taking a break and I know you’ve got the solo thing coming up, but I’m sure people want to know what the plans are, or if there are any plans. What you think is going to happen to Hey Monday in the future?
I don’t want to completely shut everyone down and say that there is nothing that is ever going to happen with Hey Monday again. We said we were going on a hiatus for a reason. We didn’t want to say Hey Monday is breaking up and then a year or so from now release something and everyone’s going to say “Oh, they tried to do the whole thing where they do a reunion” and we just didn’t want to make it that dramatic. We could do something in a year or two. We didn’t really decide or have a plan for that. I know I’m in the beginning stages of my solo stuff, so I don’t plan on taking my focus off of that for at least a year. I’m going full-force and all into that. I know the guys are doing songwriting and working on becoming producers and stuff like that. Realistically, I wouldn’t say anything is going to happen with Hey Monday for at least a year, just to be safe. alt

Earlier this week, AP reached McCracken at producer John Feldmann’s studio, where the band were mixing the 14 songs they tracked for Vulnerable and recording two more on top of that. In a typically candid interview, he promises Used loyalists that they’ll hear music soon (“Right at the beginning of next year, we’re going to be putting out a song and some secret other stuff, too—songs for the fans—to get everyone excited about the record,” he says) and assures that the long-awaited Vulnerable will live up to expectations. “I am just as excited as [fans], maybe more [so],” McCracken says. “I swear to God, no one’s going to be let down. It’s the best music the Used have ever made. All of the anticipation and waiting will be well worth it.”

Now that you’re in the mixing phase, what is the record sounding like?
It’s got a lot of everything that you love and associate with the Used. It was written in a whole different process this time around. The majority of songs I wrote on a keyboard, just structuring out beats and bass lines, instead of really approaching the songs as guitar-piano. It sounds really modern and very futuristic. I’m not trying to say we’ve bought into any dubstep nonsense, hipster bullshit. It’s just a good, emotional, rock ’n’ roll record with edgy, synthetic [sounds] and maybe touches of hip-hop and drum ’n’ bass and a lot of cool sounds. It’s definitely still the Used.

It’s been interesting to see a lot of bands incorporate those elements into their music lately.
We all love tons of different styles of music. For me, I wanted to approach it a different way other than getting the four of us [together] and jamming like a rock ’n’ roll band. We get a cool rock ’n’ roll sound approaching it writing on a computer or on a keyboard. It’s been really exciting to do it this way, too.

What made you want to do it this way?
A combination of everything. The last record was really basic, and we got into writing songs, just the four of us. All the songs came from guitar ideas, and we wanted to completely switch that up. This record, everyone’s got their own thing going on. When we first started to jam, our guitar player just got married, our drummer just had a baby. Everyone was really in their own little world, which freed me up to take a lot more time for myself to create sounds and make things that are different than what we’ve done in the past.

That’s so freeing to do different stuff, too, especially after being in a band for so long.
We’ve been working on this record for so long, stories continue to change. Last March, I fell off the stage, and it was a huge, huge disaster. I broke my elbow, I broke my hand, I had two surgeries. I was really down for the count for three months—I couldn’t do anything but eat pain pills and get addicted to pain pills again and become fat. [Laughs.] After a couple of months, after I started to get better, I realized, “Holy shit, I haven’t done anything creative in months.” I got on this really positive inspirational kick. The record came out very positive, actually.

Just because I know fans freak out—did you really get addicted to pain pills again?
It’s real easy when you have two broken bones and doctors giving you 40 Percocets, Percodones, Vicodins a day, just to sit around and eat ’em all the time. Yeah, I definitely noticed a dependency start kicking in, and I really had to kick it by myself. It’s a horrible thing to try to come off three months of pain pills just on your own, but I had a record to make, and it was perfect timing and John Feldamann’s a beautiful influence. And I got my friends. So I’m all good. Pain pills are fun, definitely. But they’re for pain. [Laughs.]

What kind of direction did John Feldmann give you guys this time? You’ve worked with him for so long.
We just have this relationship with him where I can come into the studio and sit down immediately and say, “What have you been listening to, what have I been listening to?” and get a cool vibe just to have a starting point from. Feldmann’s so open and so creative, that it’s anything goes. Which is really cool, we can really think outside the box.

Did the stuff you write at the very beginning of the cycle make the record? How did it shake out?
I tend to really like to write about those failing experiences in life, the moments where you fall down and decide to get back up or not. A lot of people really need to hear that kind of thing; nowadays, at least, everything feels so uninspired. Kids really should have something positive to think about. The whole idea of calling the record Vulnerable is kind of like—the only way I’ve ever been able to accomplish anything in my life, whether it’s falling in love or daring to dream to be in a rock ’n’ roll band and succeed, you have to be at those vulnerable moments in your life to allow these things to happen. It’s really important for us to put a positive twist on the word vulnerable. A lot of people think it’s a bad thing, but it’s actually something that allows you success in life.

(Continued on page 2…)

How did you decide the recording industry was your calling?

I started thinking seriously about a music career in high school and entertained the idea of getting a job recording music. I got a BA in Sound Arts. However, I didn’t really learn the things I wanted to in school; I just got a brief overview of all these possible audio careers and none of them were recording the music I wanted. I realized that if I wanted to really record music, I needed to drop everything and just dedicate my life to getting more recording experience. And I literally did.

I began hitting up all the local friends that I respected and offered free recordings out of my bedroom. So I got real busy real fast. Around this time, I made a record for a band that I didn’t really know or care for at the time, called Heavy Heavy Low Low [2005’s …Fuck It?!]. When we started working together we had an awesome connection and basically became instant best friends. That record got them signed to Ferret, resulting in an insane amount of bands wanting to work with me. HHLL came back to make their third record with me and have been working with Panda ever since. I appreciated how much they valued our relationship and working with them significantly influenced my style as a recording engineer and producer. I want to continue to make really powerful friendships with artists that want to challenge themselves to create unique and memorable art.

I’m now in Fremont, CA in a place that I designed and built inside of a warehouse shell.  There are bunk beds and a shower so bands from out of town can crash and record for days at a time, or just kick it and be friends. Things have been pretty natural with the growth of the studio. It’s cool to look back on and appreciate where I’m at today: thankful to be making art that matters during this tough financial time in the music industry.

What's it like in 2011 not just to be a producer at a studio, but to own and run one as well? Just looking at your discography on the Panda Studios website, it's clearly multiplied every year since 2005. Are things as good as they look? Is it a competitive market meeting the demands of bills and clients?

The goal has always been to really satisfy all my artists. I try hard to make records I want to listen to. I also aim to be a supportive team player throughout the recording experience. Artists I work with are usually really vocal about their experience with me, which gets me a lot of referrals. I also hope that I make good sounding records that inspire new people to contact me.

2011 in particular has been a difficult year for me. I've been working full time with Panda for the past eight years as my only form of income. The recording market is increasingly saturated with new kids offering their services for free. And this is obviously hard to compete with! But, raising my rates when all my clients are broke and getting offers to record for free didn’t make sense. So I got this Internet phone support job. It drained me, but it made want to really push hard on the records I made.

Now, I am back to Panda full time and I'm super thankful for my studio work. I’m now more selective about the artists that I choose to work with, and naturally more passionate about every project. I also continually challenge myself to make an impact on my artists through their studio experience and the sound quality of their records. It sounds cliché, but taking a step back really did help me to take new and better steps forward.

Running a studio comes with complete control and of course, responsibility. With that in mind, are you a do-it-all-yourself type of engineer or do you prefer to delegate work?

I’m totally DIY. I try to do it all. Even build gear and all that. I’m really driven and it’s hard for me to find people who can keep up with my high energy and tolerate my critical personality. I do have some help with booking now, so I can stay focused on the creative aspects.

I wear all the hats in the recording studio. I set up the mics, I at least try to do whatever it takes to make sounds better from the source. I operate the computer, and I drive the sessions. I’m really open to whatever an artist wants to do; because I just want to have fun in the process. I’m open to bands having cool people master their records, sometimes even mix. I don’t hold bands back from something I think will benefit their record, even when it means working with someone else.

I’m real honest and open with bands. This can be hard for some first-time artists to get used to. My goal is to get in their head to set the tone for a dedicated and serious approach throughout the session. The successful artists I’ve worked with have great stories about their experiences with me, including how my critical style impacted their dedication to their art. My job is to make sure everyone is really proud to say they are responsible for the final product.

Who are your top five influences in terms of other producers?

Tchad Blake
Rich Costey
Nigel Godrich
Rick Rubin
Jack Joseph Puig

What do you do to differentiate yourself from the influx of other self-produced live series out there?

A live performance is a piece of art. And that art is rapidly declining with the overproduction of records. I want to be the guy to celebrate bands I am inspired by who have a natural chemistry. I decided to start doing live performance video and audio recordings to help bring the magic of a live performance to a viewer’s home. It’s my way of trying to fight the decline of the music industry and show that naturally talented artists still exist.

I started by reaching out to my best friend Jihad Rabah from Twelve Gauge Records to contact artists. Our goal is to capture the beauty of a live recording with a talented artist/band. Our sound quality is awesome and we’re about to diversify our shooting locations and episode themes.

Do you invite the bands for the Waiting Room or do they reach out to you? Or does it go both ways? It seems like in the end, both parties benefit: your studio is promoted along with the participating band.

We've invited all the artists thus far. We’re open to suggestions for any new artist, but the core staff really makes the decisions. We all have to be stoked on the artist. The entire project is DIY/free—it takes a lot of our personal time to make each episode. I want people to watch the episodes and say “Wait, that’s not a music video? You mean that band is playing that song live? That looks crazy and sounds ridiculously good.” Many bands rely on overproduction to get them by, and those artists' flaws are all visible/audible live. My hope is an artist's raw performance on the Waiting Room captures an energy that doesn't exist on their album and celebrates and inspires natural talent.

How did the whole thing with Polar Bear Club happen?

Our producer Will Levy [from The Story So Far] chatted with them about filming an episode before a show in Sacramento, CA. They were stoked and it was booked super last minute, maybe two days before the shoot. We had a two hour time slot, so they had to load in the night after a show at 2 am and track the next morning. Filming took about an hour.

It's always hectic to record and shoot an episode, but that's what a live show is about. Getting in and doing the best job you can with the tools you have. Every session is a learning experience and we make massive improvements each time. These live episodes force me to be on my toes and really commit to my gut instinct. It’s a cool challenge.

With the Polar Bear Club episode finished, can you reveal anything currently in the works?

We've got a lot of cool stuff happening. We just got an entire new video team. It’s been crazy fun. We just did an episode for No Sir which is the first release on “Family Drugs”—a new music collective that I started with Jihad Rabah. They brought in old TVs and sheets that they hung up and tagged all over. Literally looked like someone destroyed my studio. It was awesome and I’m really excited for them.

We also did Young Science, which is the electronic project of my great friend Grant Averill. He’s one of my favorite artists I’ve worked with. My feeling is if all the staff of the Waiting Room really likes each band, so will the viewers. I just want to keep working with artists who inspire me and make a series that makes people want to see more. alt