Well, dear reader, Christmas is coming in June this year. Earlier this March, A7X released a brand-new single, “Nobody,” and announced that their eighth studio album, Life Is But A Dream…, drops June 2. It’s a thrilling development, but there’s just one problem: A new single, even a sublime one, isn’t enough to satisfy our excitement for three more months. So what else can we listen to in the meantime?

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To answer that question, we dove into A7X’s decades-spanning discography to find their most underappreciated songs — the B-sides, bonus tracks, and hidden jewels that the world has largely overlooked. While you count down the days until the new album, click over to your favorite streaming service and join us on a tour through the greatest Avenged Sevenfold songs that casual listeners have never heard of and even die-hard fans may have forgotten.

“Thick And Thin”

Let’s start by addressing the elephant in the room: Many Avenged Sevenfold fans like to pretend that their debut album, Sounding the Seventh Trumpet, doesn’t exist. It may be mostly composed of unremarkable early 2000s metalcore, but “Thick And Thin” proves that the record still contains flashes of brilliance. The track begins like a straightforward punk song before breaking into feral screams and brutal guitars that would still make any mosh pit hero go apeshit. And with that mosher in mind, the lyrics focus on having fun, staying safe, and supporting one another at even the craziest of shows.

“Lost”

Coming in hot on A7X’s 2007 self-titled album, “Lost” is most notable for its use of Auto-Tuned vocals from both lead singer M. Shadows and original drummer Jimmy “The Rev” Sullivan. But while some artists might use Auto-Tune as a crutch, for A7X it was purely a creative experiment. This album was the first, and so far only, record that they produced completely on their own, so why not try some new things, just for the hell of it? Auto-Tune never became a major part of A7X’s sound, but on “Lost,” it somehow fits perfectly.

“I Won’t See You Tonight Part 2”

One of the most popular tracks from A7X’s sophomore album, Waking the Fallen, is “I Won’t See You Tonight Part 1,” a melancholic portrait of someone who is about to die by suicide. Perhaps even more powerful, however, is the often overshadowed “Part 2,” which is written from the perspective of someone who has just learned that their close friend has taken his life. No other song in A7X’s corpus so perfectly captures the soul-splitting agony of grief. Press play and you immediately hear a furious, primal scream from Shadows, paired with a guitar that stretches into a painful shriek, piercing your brain like an icepick. The song was recorded years before The Rev’s passing, making it even more tragic and poignant in retrospect.

“Runaway”

On the deluxe edition of The Stage, A7X added a few bonus tracks that you won’t find on the regular release — including a cover of “Runaway,” originally a 1961 hit performed by singer-songwriter Del Shannon. The band transform a sweet, forlorn tune into an adrenalized punk-rock gem, one that features Warren Fitzgerald of the Vandals on guitar. It’s also the only recorded A7X track with rhythm guitarist Zacky Vengeance stepping in as the lead singer. The cover was his idea, after all — and he fucking nails it.

“Eternal Rest” (Live From Ventura Theater – January 2004)

This live recording of the Waking the Fallen track puts the band’s virtuosic musicianship on full display. After a blistering guitar solo from Synyster Gates, Shadows launches into the raw metalcore vocals that longtime fans instantly recognize and often miss dearly. When the chorus hits, he switches to a swaggering singing style that resembles his performance on “Walk,” A7X’s cover of the Pantera classic. The Rev’s airtight drumming brings it all together to provide undeniable proof that Avenged Sevenfold were always good live.

“Demons”

In a more just world, “Demons” would be one of A7X’s best-known songs. It’s the first track off Diamonds in the Rough, a collection of B-sides recorded around the time that A7X were working on their self-titled album. It was released with the Live in the LBC concert DVD in 2008 but only hit streaming services in 2020. As for what makes “Demons” stand out, notice the wicked drum fills and the clever call and response in the chorus. Shadows first sings about trying to escape from himself, but when he mentions the demons that follow him, his words change in tone and drop in volume, as if they were the subtle intonations of the demons themselves. In short, this is heavy-metal ear candy at its smartest and most technically proficient.

“Burn It Down”

Kicking off with an aggressive drum pattern, followed by a dual-guitar part that can only be described as acrobatic, “Burn It Down” finds each member of A7X firing on all cylinders. The song embodies everything that made the City of Evil album so unique — and so polarizing. Arriving after Waking the Fallen, the record was definitely not the metalcore masterpiece that many fans were expecting. It was heavy yet catchy, dark yet colorful. Songs like “Beast and the Harlot” and “Bat Country” would soon catapult A7X into international superstardom, but as the album’s second track, “Burn It Down” played a crucial role in establishing the band’s killer new sound.

“4:00 AM”

If you’re looking for an Avenged Sevenfold song to sing in the shower, look no further than “4:00 AM.” It’s a certified banger that somehow slipped under the radar, dropping around the same time as Nightmare without being included on the album itself. A major highlight is the bridge section, which features the know-it-when-you-hear-it, Halloween-sounding guitars that have become a bit of an A7X trademark. (You’ll also notice them after 3:00 in “Scream,” for example.) And with such a karaoke-worthy chorus, it’s high time that “4:00 AM” gets the love it deserves.

“Save Me”

When it was released in 2010, “Save Me” was Avenged Sevenfold’s longest song — and even today, those 10 minutes and 56 seconds feel like a journey. Starting with a foreboding bassline from Johnny Christ, the track takes the listener through unnerving, whispered vocals and into a scorching-hot Gates solo. At the end, Shadows delivers an impassioned performance over tasteful piano chords and Mike Portnoy’s vicious drumming. Creepiness, beauty, tenderness, aggression — “Save Me” has it all.

“St. James”

Originally a Hail to the King bonus track, “St. James” is a moving tribute to The Rev. But it’s not a bleak or mournful meditation on his death — it’s a joyful celebration of his life. The lyrics touch on his undeniable creative genius, as he is credited with writing mega-hits like “Afterlife” and “Welcome to the Family.” They also wink at The Rev’s endearingly eccentric personality, as seen in a certain famous encounter with a “stallion duck.” When these words combine with soaring, triumphant guitars, “St. James” puts a lump in your throat and a smile on your face.

And now in 2022, the band feel bigger and more relevant than ever. While some veteran artists might shy away from new social media platforms, Shaddix’s animated, endearing presence on TikTok has earned the band 1.5 million dedicated followers. Shaddix’s collaborations with artists, ranging from Jeris Johnson to Atreyu to Sueco, are lighting up old fans and bringing new ones on board. And oh yeah, the band’s latest singles are racking up tens of millions of streams online. Indeed, Shaddix isn’t just adapting to the new cultural landscape — he’s actively shaping it himself.

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Making their own mark on the world of heavy music is Palaye Royale, a trio of brothers with a flair for aesthetic dramatics and an instantly spellbinding sound. While they’re on track for ever-greater rock stardom, lead singer Remington Leith is still acclimating to their newfound success. “I never really envisioned myself in a band or anything,” he says with a charming, almost bashful smile.

But if there’s anyone qualified to dish out time-tested advice on living life as a beloved frontman, it’s Shaddix. “I remember the first time I found Papa Roach’s music, I had a huge crush on this girl, and I went to her MySpace page, and she had ‘Last Resort’ as her MySpace song,” Leith reminisces upon meeting the formidable frontman. “It just made me like her even more. But it didn’t work out because I was not remotely cool back then — 5-foot-2, maybe 3, with the world’s worst Justin Bieber cut. It just wasn’t meant to be…”

REMINGTON LEITH: Going back in time a bit, I’ve always been curious: What artists were some of Papa Roach’s first inspirations?

JACOBY SHADDIX: Early on, I loved Faith No More — they were a real big one for me. Deftones were another early influence on us. We lived in this small town called Vacaville, and on the weekends, we’d go to Sacramento and watch Deftones in the clubs.

LEITH: That must have been life-changing.

SHADDIX: Seriously. You know that moment when you’re like, “This is what I wanna do”? Deftones were one of those bands for me. Another influence would be Mike Ness from Social Distortion — and I loved East Coast hip-hop, too. Like Wu-Tang Clan and the storytelling and their oddball approach to hip-hop.

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LEITH: That’s one thing you guys are so great with — the storytelling. You tell stories in such detail that you listen to it, and you know exactly where you are. It’s so visual.

SHADDIX: Thank you, man. What about you guys? I know you’re all brothers, so this has been a lifelong thing, right?

LEITH: Yeah, it’s been a journey. Our mom put us in piano lessons when I was 4 years old, my little brother was 2 and my older brother was 6. She was like, “You guys have to play piano for a while, and then you can pick another instrument.” My brother was like, “I’ve got guitar!” I wanted to play drums, but my little brother was like, “No, I already picked drums!” So my mom was like, “Well, I guess you’re singing.” But I didn’t want to sing! I was the shyest kid ever, so I never imagined myself doing it — but then I fell in love with it.

I think the aha moment was when my mom took us to see the Black Crowes in Vegas. The second they played “She Talks to Angels,” I was like, “Oh, my God.” Chris Robinson was in the front singing barefoot, just the biggest rock star you’ve ever seen. I went all starry-eyed, and it was over.

SHADDIX: What a great story. It’s trippy because in the beginning, I actually wanted to play drums, too. But at the time, I was playing football in high school, and the guy on the line next to me, Dave Buckner, played drums — and he was way better than I was. He ended up becoming the drummer for Papa Roach.

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So I was like, “Fuck it, I’ll buy a bass.” I wasn’t that good, but one time I had my bass in the back of my truck while I was working, and somebody busted open the window and stole [it]. I was like, “What the fuck? I wanna rock!” So then my drummer was like, “Dude, just be a singer. You don’t need any instruments — that shit’s free.” And I was like, “All right!”

What artists have been inspiring for you guys?

LEITH: Bowie is a huge influence. The Stones — that’s what my mom always put on. Back in the day, she was actually a photographer in the scene, so she took pictures of Johnny Thunders and the Sex Pistols. As I got more into music, I discovered My Chemical Romance, and I found Nirvana when I was 14, which was incredible.

Even now, mentally, I’m still touring in my mom’s car; I’m still the kid trying to live the dream. Would you say that success has changed you as a person?

SHADDIX: It changed everything in my life early on. I was like, “I want to drink every bit of vodka and destroy and pillage and rock and roll!” And I did that, but I just became really lonely and broken. It didn’t work too well for me — it fucked me up. So I had to choose a bit of a different course. What has success been like for you?

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LEITH: It’s definitely strange. Especially growing up in Vegas and then moving to LA when I was so young, you have this dream of Freddie Mercury at Wembley Stadium — and until you’re there, it’s like, “I’m not successful yet.” I’m on my way, though, and it’s nice to take a look back. Even like four years ago, I was outside of the Wiltern [Theatre in LA] handing out flyers for a show that only our girlfriends and our mom came out to. And we just sold it out in October by ourselves. It’s crazy. My little brother and I also just got this house, this beautiful home. It’s rented, but we were looking at each other like, “We were sleeping in Mom’s car five years ago — and we have a backyard now!”

SHADDIX: That’s so cool, man. As we were writing our new record, we actually wanted to go somewhere away from our home. There’s this mansion down in Temecula, and we moved the band into it. We brought our producer, engineer and this chef, and we threw down for a month, writing as much music as we could. It was like the kickoff for the new record, and we achieved probably three-quarters of the material that made the record in that house. Being in that close environment with each other, there are some battles and some fights…

LEITH: That is so necessary!

SHADDIX: Absolutely. Then the walls come down, you get to that next space creatively and the best idea wins.

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LEITH: It’s competitive, but it’s so good because everyone’s at the top of their game. I’ve gotten into fights with Sebastian [Danzig, guitarist] where I was like, “You fucking idiot, that doesn’t need to be the chorus! This is the chorus.” Luckily, we had an outside third party, the producer — and he was like, “Actually, [Sebastian] is right.” I was like, “Son of a bitch!” But it makes for the best song. 

I actually got pretty excited about something I wrote about five days ago. I was flying home on a redeye, and I hadn’t slept that day or the day before. So I’m just running on fumes — I have no idea what’s happening. I make it home, and I’m pretty much delusional. But I’m sitting at the piano, and I write this part. I record it and fall asleep, and the next day I FaceTime my producer. I was like, “Yo, listen to this idea.” And he goes, “Dude, that’s fucking killer. When’s your flight?” I was like, “Uh, in five hours.” He goes, “It’ll take you an hour-and-a-half to get to me. Come right now.” We wrote and recorded the entire song in an hour-and-a-half, and I still made my flight out. We showed it to the label and management, and everyone was freaking out about it.

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So, I feel like sometimes it’s good to be delusional and out of your own head to think of a melody that you normally wouldn’t. When was your last big moment of inspiration?

SHADDIX: In the process of writing our new record, I was going through some shit with my father, who I don’t have a very good relationship with. But I came to a point where I pretty much forgave him. I was like, “You don’t have to say you’re sorry for what was. I fucking love you anyways, no matter what.” That was a really big moment in my life.

At the time we were still staying at that place in Temecula, and there was a little casita where I could go off and write melodies. And on that day, I remember I walked in, and Tobin [Esperance] was cutting bass on this track. They had the bass turned way up, and right off the rip, I’m like, “Oh, my God.” The music felt like a weight being lifted off me, and the conversation with my father had felt the same way. So I’m like, “I’ve got to write a song about this” — and it turned into this track “No Apologies.”

It’s rad how music can be so in sync with life. That was a big moment for me, and they just happened to be writing that riff on that day. I’m just glad that I was able to tell that story through the music.

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LEITH: It was meant to be. It’s funny because I’ve also not had the best relationship with my father. One song that always hits me in the feels is “Old Man” by Neil Young. Every time I listen to it, it’s so hard not to get emotional. It’s definitely gotten me through some moments.

SHADDIX: It’s so trippy that you say that because it’s the same thing for me. Just that simple lyric: “Old man, look at my life/I’m a lot like you were.” I didn’t grow up around my dad — I didn’t have him in my life much. But as I’ve learned about him, I’m like, “Fuck, I’m just like that old man.”

There’s also a Social Distortion song called “Down On The World Again” that’s a good check for my head. I can get real negative about the state of affairs — I just see so much injustice in the world, so much judgment and hatred. Then I become negative and angry, and I have to check myself and go, “Hey man, don’t be that negative thing that you despise — be something positive. Be the change that you want to see in the world.” So that track is a reminder, like, “Cob, don’t be down on the world again.”

People think of me as a very positive person, but there’s also this dark, self-loathing side to myself. I have this terrible, negative self-talk that I’ve got to keep on a leash. I have to really be vigilant and go, “You are not your thoughts, Cob.” I used to drink real heavy and use that as my crutch, but I can’t do that anymore. I’m coming up on 10 years off of that.

LEITH: Dude, congratulations. That’s fucking huge.

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SHADDIX: Yeah, I thought that becoming a sober rock ’n’ roll musician was going to fuck up my life, but it actually worked out for me. When shit gets dark, I just have to remind myself that I am not my thoughts — I am not what my mind is telling me.

As I get prepared for this tour — I haven’t been on the road in two years, and I’ve got all this fear and anxiety about it. Like, why should I have fear and anxiety about getting on the road? This is what I was born to do! But my mind’s going, “What if your voice doesn’t work? What if you can’t sing for 90 minutes? What if you lose your voice on the second day of the tour? What if the plane crashes going to LA?”

LEITH: It’s wild how similar those thoughts are for me. My first day of tour, I was like, “Can I do this again?” The first show, I was hyperventilating. I was freaking out, pacing back and forth. Every demon in my head was popping out. But then the second I got onstage, I was like, “I’m home.”

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SHADDIX: Yeah, I’m not good when shit’s just calm, quiet, still — I need some chaos. I’ve got too much energy inside, and if I just sit stagnant, it drives me fucking mad. I need that release — that’s why I go run all the time. That’s why I go to the gym, because I’m an energetic being. So performing is such a healthy experience for me. I get to explode, physically and emotionally, just fucking sweat. It’s all of that coming out at the same time. And then you see people feeling that off of the band, and that’s happening in them. That’s the zone.

LEITH: It’s the greatest feeling in the world. I’m also not good at sitting in one place for too long, especially staying home. Because you get in your own head. I think my biggest problem is comparing myself to others. Like, “Why don’t I have that level of success? Why couldn’t I have written that song?”

SHADDIX: They say that comparison is the thief of joy.

LEITH: I completely agree with that. But once you get onstage and realize that other people are connecting and relating to the lyrics you wrote in your bedroom during those dark times, that’s the fucking shit. That’s when all those voices shut up.

 I want to ask a little more about this new music that you guys have been working on. Is there anything different about this record that really sets it apart?

SHADDIX: I’d say that going and living in that house in Temecula created a huge explosion of creativity. We had done that before on an album, The Paramour Sessions, where we moved into this big, old mansion in Hollywood called The Paramour.

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LEITH: You guys did a record there? We just did a music video there for “No Love In LA.”

SHADDIX: Dude, that’s sick!

LEITH: That is the most inspiring house.

SHADDIX: Yeah, they had to come peel me out of that place. But just having that experience where you’re living together and eating together and sleeping in the same home and waking up and digging into the music… And the experience of having the rug pulled out from under your life right prior to it was like the perfect storm for creativity, and for this escape through music. It really was a saving grace of the last couple of years, just being able to be with my boys and create something inspiring. We’ve been doing this for a long time, and at some point in a band’s career, you go, “All right, put a fork in it. We fucking did it.” But we’re just not there yet. Every time we go and write music, it’s like, “Fuck, this is rad. I love this.”

There’s also a lot of self-reflection in this record. It’s a 14-song album, so there’s a bit more room to stretch out stylistically. We’d never recorded a ballad before, but we did a ballad — and I’m telling you, man, this thing will catch you in the feels. It’ll make a grown man cry. We dug deep on this one. We really did. If we’ve ever made a record that I feel could be the final statement, this is it. I could be content not writing another record after this. But then you ask me this question in two years, and I’ll be like, “I need to get in the studio now.”

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LEITH: I can’t wait to listen to that ballad. It’s such a cool feeling when you’ve written something great, and no one knows it yet. What we’ve been working on has been my favorite record we’ve ever made, especially this one song that we named the album after called “Fever Dream.” It sounds like the song I’ve been waiting my whole life to write. It’s a big five-and-a-half-minute thing — it almost feels like our “Bohemian Rhapsody.”

Before I let you go, just one more question, Jacoby: Any advice for staying hungry and creative for as long as Papa Roach has?

SHADDIX: When I was younger, I remember the drummer for Faith No More was like, “If I could give you any advice, just know that the same people that you meet on your way to the top are the same people you’re going to meet on your way to the bottom. So act accordingly.” I’ve always kept that with me and tried to lead with a positive spirit. When shit gets tough, you pull your bootstraps up and handle your business. You can cry about it later behind closed doors, but you’ve got shit to do, you know? There have been moments when I’ve felt like this whole thing was over, but there’s always been that drive.

And Remy, you guys have got it. You were born for it. You’ve been doing it since you were a kid. So just keep your head on straight — and don’t do too much cocaine!

So intones Tilian Pearson in the first few moments of his new solo album, Factory Reset. At first, a sentiment this thoughtful and heartfelt may seem out of place for the silken-voiced singer of Dance Gavin Dance. After all, the band’s lyrics often careen from tongue-in-cheek to completely nonsensical: “Riding a rhino, pico de gallo/Rooster’s beak, I’ll sleep when I leap that Jeep!” Jon Mess caterwauls on “Chucky Vs. The Giant Tortoise.”

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But Pearson is a man who thinks and feels deeply, and while we all love a touch of absurdist humor, sometimes a chaotic world demands a more meaningful response. So in the wake of the upheaval brought on by the pandemic, Factory Reset finds Pearson grappling with self-doubt and the nature of truth, all while channeling the flavor and insight of the transcendent experiences he had as he wrote the record. The result is a major high point in an already remarkable career. 

You released a killer album in Factory Reset. When you first started working on it, what was your goal?

After our tour got canceled in 2020, I just had a bunch of free time, and I wanted to make another solo album. But getting together with people was a bit difficult, so it’s the first album that I produced and recorded myself. I sent the tracks to Kris Crummett, and he played drums and mixed it and tightened everything up. It was a fun process and pretty rewarding. I’m really proud of the first track, “Holy Water,” in particular. It’s not really like anything I’ve done on my own, and it has a vibe that’s thrown back to my time in Tides Of Man from 2008 to 2010.

How do you think writing, recording and producing the record changed you as an artist?

I think it was a cool experiment, and I’m definitely proud of Factory Reset, but I want to collaborate again. I think that’s how it changed me — I got that itch back.

Aside from the album, what has been another major highlight of 2021?

Getting back to touring with Dance Gavin Dance was definitely the highlight. I had missed the friendships with the guys in the band and the shows — Salt Lake City was a surprising rush. It has always been a down city for us; we’ve canceled more shows there than anywhere else, just for lack of interest. But this time was so enthusiastic and so much bigger than we predicted. After that, I made a point to be like, “OK, I’m going to live in the moment on this tour, really soak it up and appreciate it.” Before all that, I had been feeling a little bit lost, to be honest. Then touring came back, and it was like, “Oh shit, this is what my purpose is.” It reinspired a lot of confidence.

Tell me more about that sense of lostness. What did that feel like for you?

I think that doing music and touring covers up a sense of, “OK, so what else is my purpose? What else am I doing?” I was thinking about that way too often. Even when everything comes back — if it does, or if it comes back differently — I still have that lingering thought of, “What is it all building toward?” I got stuck in that headspace: “Do I want a family? Do I want to build another career? Do I want to have a spiritual awakening?” All of those things crossed my mind pretty consistently.

If you were to try a different career, what would that look like?

I like flying — that’s what I was doing before music, and I’ve been procrastinating getting back into that for a long time. I got my pilot’s license at age 17, so I can fly single-engine prop planes. But when I flew, it wasn’t as rewarding — it was a little bit lonely, maybe. Though I’m sure that could have changed if I stayed on that path and built it out.

Looking back on the year, have you experienced any disappointments or made any mistakes?

I think the isolation forced even more isolation, to where it became unnecessary. I definitely spent too many days not responding to people or not growing my relationships. The lyrics of Factory Reset actually have a hint of isolation. It just snowballed — that’s something I definitely want to look at changing next year.

But I feel like I’ve always had that in me. Even as a kid, I would run away from school, run away from home. I would just walk or hide in the bushes and spy. I think it was a mixture of wanting to be a secret agent and not really relating to people right off the bat. Who knows where that comes from, but in the last year, I’ve realized that that’s definitely still in me.

Were things kind of rocky in your home life back then?

No, it wasn’t angry or violent or anything. Although we did grow up in a very weird religious circumstance that I was never really into, and I felt pressure from friends and family to be interested in it.

I also wanted to ask about the new Dance Gavin Dance record, which I know you guys have been working hard on. What have been the highs and lows of that process?

It’s been mostly highs. We spent more time doing it, and we were in a really good environment. Jon, Andrew [Wells, vocalist of Eidola] and I rented an Airbnb and just chilled — probably for over a month for me and Jon. Because of that, we didn’t take any more time on any songs — we just wrote more. It was mostly a positive experience the whole time. Jon and I collaborated more than we usually do, and that was nice. Andrew and I, too — he’s on this album a lot.

Andrew officially joined the band in 2021, right?

Not yet — that’s something that might happen in 2022. But he’s definitely on a lot of music now, and we knew he was going to join the band. He was just at the end of a contract that we had already done, and we haven’t created the new one yet.

Do you think the success of your work with Jon and Andrew was because of that itch you got to collaborate more?

Possibly, yeah. I was definitely more comfortable in general, just being in an environment with Jon that might have been awkward in the past. I think he was in a really good headspace, too, and he spent a lot of time writing. He usually writes quite a bit before we even get there, while I tend to procrastinate more. I think it’s because I don’t like writing the demos — I like to hear the album recordings, and DGD almost always does instrumentals first. Next time we’re going to probably spend even more time in between tracking the instruments and the album because it tends to work out pretty well.

Are you happy with how the tracks are coming together? Are fans going to like them?

I think so. It’s definitely not as left field as Afterburner — there are no songs in Spanish or anything. It’s a bit bigger-sounding than usual for us. It sounds a little more like our live set than the clarity of Mothership, where you can hear every single note the guitar is playing. There’s a little bit more of a togetherness to the sound. And because we had the most time to work on it, it’s our longest album — I can reveal that.

Both visually and lyrically, it seems like DGD often have a thematic focus on robots. And the same now seems to be true of your solo work because you titled the new album Factory Reset. What do robots mean to you?

In DGD, that happened before I got there. But with Factory Reset, I didn’t look at it like an electronic thing. I knew it had that connotation, but it was more like resetting your mind and the way you think. That came with several trips out to Joshua Tree while writing and being in a much more meditative space than usual.

“Resetting your mind” makes me think of psychedelics, especially with the trippy album cover. Was that a component of your creative process?

Yeah, there’s definitely a psychedelic element to it — it’s probably the most psychedelic-influenced thing I’ve ever done, both lyrically and musically. I’ve slowed down on that front since then, but I would be having a trip, write in my notepad while it was happening, then read it the next morning and start writing.

The song “Anthem” is actually based on a trip I had. It made me think that there’s more out there, more to consciousness and more to life than I had previously thought. It made me interested in looking into that more.

You mentioned that early in your life, you felt pressure to conform to certain religious beliefs. Did that experience change your views on religion?

Absolutely. As a young 20s person or even a late teenager, I thought it was all bullshit that I didn’t subscribe to. I thought people were just lying to each other and lying to themselves, and then having the placebo effect and spreading it around. But later in life, I’ve come back around and been like, “OK, it’s not all just predatory — there’s something to this.” If for thousands of years, people have believed in the same themes and talked about them, and they kind of formed the world, there has to be something more to it.

That’s really well said. So what did that psychedelic experience feel like in the moment?

That specific one was almost like a communication between me and some ancient entity. Like a communication from… who knows? It’s hard to put my finger on. “Ineffable” is the word that always describes those experiences. I can’t really explain it. It was just a feeling I had.

A picture was also communicated to me. This was shortly after the George Floyd murder, and I saw this picture of humans holding hands with each other. Pain is way too much to carry by yourself. It won’t ever heal. You have to pass it on to the whole group. That was something I was struggling with around that time.

Then there was a moment — this is in the lyrics for “Anthem” — where it was like, “OK, my consciousness is definitely separate from my body.” That’s not something I had ever believed in before. That’s not to say it really happened — I don’t know. But that feeling…

Many artists feel that their public persona is different from their private self. Is that true for you?

Definitely. I’m very confident onstage and nowhere else. Public speaking would be tough — I actually don’t talk much onstage because of that. I just show things with body language and then create interludes. Those interludes were my idea, mostly because I don’t want to have to give a speech after every song. I value that in other people, but it takes me out of the flow, and I’d rather stay in it.

I’m glad that you brought up self-confidence. In “Caught In The Carousel” off Factory Reset, the lyrics keep circling back to the question of, “Am I good enough?” Is that inquiry coming from a personal place for you?

Yeah, a lot of it is. Maybe not all of it, but probably the majority. Sometimes a line just works and makes sense in the context of the song, and it’s not 100% personal, but mostly. Or I see things in other people that I relate to — that’s what my lyrics are often about. “You’ll Forget Me Soon” on the first solo record was about my friend’s divorce. Jon and I wrote “Doom & Gloom” about a breakup that Will [Swan, lead guitarist] was going through. We just had empathy for it, so we wrote about it. That happens a lot.

In past interviews, you’ve talked about major life events — like getting on DGD’s radar — as happening by pure chance. Looking back on 2021, did anything important happen that was a matter of luck or chance?

When I listen to the new Dance Gavin Dance, I don’t really remember coming up with any of the parts that I made. You just put yourself in front of the computer or pen and paper, and it just… happens. So I feel like writing music is chance — it’s not really in your control. It’s just whatever comes.

Do you think of writing as being almost like a psychedelic experience, where you’re channeling some sort of consciousness beyond yourself?

Yeah, I think most artists would probably agree that it’s some other consciousness feeding the creativity, unless you have a big enough ego to think that you’re somehow responsible for it. That’s what’s fun about being in the world of artists — you know that they know, too, like, “This is just something that’s coming to me in a stream. It’s not really intentional.”

Interesting. So do you think of yourself more as a vessel than a creator? Or maybe a bit of both?

Yeah, definitely. In some ways, I feel like I’m sacrificial to myself, just to be delivering and performing. There are those nights or even weeks on tour when you’re like, “OK, we’re pushing through, but we’re all dead. We’re all tired.” It’s obviously rewarding, but you have to do it for the audience — I mean, that’s the whole point. When I was growing up and watching shows, that’s what I felt, and that’s what inspired me. And today, there’s nothing else I’d rather be doing.

This interview appeared in issue 401 (the AP Yearbook), available here.

“Great album, Lois, great album,” Peter says. “I didn’t know who I was until I heard this album.”

Cut to Peter alone in his room, sitting off the side of his bed, headphones firmly in place. “Oh God, Lionel,” he says, listening intently. “You have been hurt. You have been hurt by somebody. That much is clear.” He then begins rocking back and forth, choking back sobs and whispering, “Who hurt you? Who hurt you? Who hurt you?”

Read more: Deb Never tapped into her dreams to make ‘Where Have All The Flowers Gone?’

Reader, I’m here to tell you that I’ve found my Can’t Slow Down. No, it’s not by Lionel Richie — it comes from a different adviser to American Idol hopefuls. It’s called Optimist, and it’s the debut album from FINNEAS.

If you hadn’t noticed, the virtuosic FINNEAS has become one of the biggest names in music today. His 2019 debut EP, Blood Harmony, has accrued millions of streams online. He has produced tracks for everyone from Justin Bieber to Halsey to Demi Lovato. And oh yeah, he’s won eight Grammys — including Producer of the Year, Album of the Year and Song of the Year for his work with his sister, Billie Eilish.

Read more: On ‘Karaoke Alone,’ the Aubreys stepped out & escaped their comfort zones

While these achievements would mark a zenith in almost any other career, FINNEAS’ most impressive work yet lies in Optimist. I wouldn’t say it made me go full Peter Griffin, but I will admit to experiencing thoughtful nods, nostalgic sighs and the occasional lump in my throat.

Because yes, the album is optimistic, but not in a way that feels naive, forced or Pollyanna. The optimism here is nuanced and hard-earned — strong but shot through with worry, yearning and pain. It acknowledges the ongoing crises of the world and the inevitability of death and tragedy, and in the hands of someone less wise or less courageous, the message would stop there. But FINNEAS dares to say that no, these things do not make our lives meaningless. There is still power in love and joy in sex, and life is a thing to be celebrated alongside those you care about most.

After so many months of the pandemic, live shows have finally started coming back. How does it feel to be performing again?

When I used to envision a return to the stage, I thought it would be this crazy, cathartic experience. Although it’s been wonderful and we’ve always loved playing live, it actually just feels very normal. The main thing I’ve been nervous about is playing the songs, since I want to do a good job. But I’ve felt really good about the shows so far, and the crowds have been great.

Your debut album, Optimist, is fantastic. When you first started working on it, what was your goal for this record?

My favorite albums are cohesive bodies of work, and I wanted this one to be the same way. As a producer for other artists, it can be easy to make a song that sounds like this or a song that sounds like that, but I wanted this to feel like one artist. That was my biggest challenge, making sure that I have a real identity on this record.

In your own words, what does that thematic or musical cohesion sound like? What brings all these songs together?

The through line would be some version of honesty and transparency. These songs are really how I feel about my life and the world. There’s metaphor on this album, but there’s nothing that didn’t stem from my life experience or something that I think about constantly. So hopefully it’s a road map to getting to know me better and getting to know what keeps me up at night.

One of my favorite tracks from the album is “The Kids Are All Dying,” and at the beginning and the end, you can hear some people talking in the background. Tell me about the choice to include that.

I also used that sound on “xanny,” the Billie Eilish song. But in this case, I wanted it to sound like people at brunch — I’m a huge fan of brunch — because that’s a group of people who are not worrying about the world around them. When you’re at brunch, you’re sitting there figuring out if you’re going to get Florentine or Benedict, drinking orange juice and talking about how hard your easy week was. That’s basically what I wanted to write this song about, and it was super fun.

There was a lyric from that song that really stood out to me: “There’s nothing you can do that people won’t misunderstand.” What does that line mean to you?

I think it’s very easy to be misunderstood, even when you’re talking to somebody and communicating directly. But that’s even more true with the internet and its lack of nuance — you’re taking away most human mannerisms, so things like sarcasm don’t translate very well. It’s easy to say something and have it offend people when you didn’t mean it in a controversial way at all.

There are people who have radically terrible opinions — there are bigots, racists, misogynists and xenophobes, and that’s all horrible. But then there’s another whole section of the populace that’s well intentioned and articulating it poorly. We’re all busy crucifying them and being offended by them. That seems like shooting yourself in the foot, to say to somebody who’s trying to be on your side that they’re saying it wrong.

So, I have zero songwriting ability, but while I’m asleep, I sometimes get ideas for cool choruses and guitar solos in my dreams. Do you ever draw songwriting inspiration from your dreams?

I’ve definitely had dreams where I write songs, but then I wake up and I sing them, and they’re horrible. My dreams are actually 99% anxiety and worry about the future. [They’re] my greatest fears — like my dog gets lost, or I go through a terrible breakup. I don’t enjoy my dreams at all. As a stupid “would you rather,” I often posit the question, “Would you rather dream every night or never dream again?” Most of my friends say they would dream every night, but for me, never dream again is the easy winner. I’d much rather have peaceful, relaxing sleep without the terrible dreams.

Do you deal with these feelings of stress and anxiety during your waking life, too? Is mental health something you’ve had to work on over the years?

My journey with mental health has been leagues easier than a lot of people I love. But I think the real core element to my health is knowing what to expose myself to. I don’t read any articles about myself. I try not to look up my own name. I try not to look up Billie’s name. Those are easy ways for me to ruin my own day, like seeing some super-mean thing about myself or my sister.

I don’t feel that I suffer from clinical depression or anxiety, but I can easily get depressed if I’m not doing things like going outside, seeing daylight, breathing fresh air, exercising my body and drinking a lot of water. Those are simple things, but especially as a music producer — and especially on the road — it’s really easy to forgo a lot of those things. If I do forgo them, I feel terrible. I don’t have a good day.

Did you experience periods of depression or anxiety as a kid, or is this an emerging phenomenon in your young adulthood?

There’s a line on my record about being an anxious kid. I’ve always been filled with anxiety, sort of an existential dread. In 2019, I read the autobiography of Flea [Red Hot Chili Peppers bassist], and he talks about having a sense of unease his whole life. I’ve rarely related to something more. I’m basically uneasy and have been since I was born. I’ve come a long way, but it’s still present in my life — it’s still a thing I deal with, and I sometimes have to recognize when it may be a little irrational. I can feel it, but I don’t have to think that what I’m feeling is absolutely going to come to pass and that all my worst fears are going to happen.

Totally. My therapist likes to remind me that our thoughts are just thoughts, not absolute truths that are definitely going to happen.

Right, exactly.

How do these feelings affect your self-confidence? Rock stars and pop stars often seem like these larger-than-life figures, and it can be easy to forget that they’re human, too. Are there particular moments that make you feel awkward or embarrassed?

I feel like the more exposure you have, the more opportunities you have to embarrass yourself. I constantly see photos of myself where my hair looks stupid, or I’m making a dumb face. I have strabismus — I have a lazy eye, so sometimes I’ll see photos where I’m looking in two completely different directions. It’s frustrating.

So while some people might think that fame leads to bulletproof self-esteem, it sounds like that may not be the case.

Yeah, that’s not true at all. I’ve never met a more insecure group of people in my life than celebrities. It’s a privileged position, and it usually comes with money, which certainly makes life easier in some ways. But fame has definitely not changed the DNA of the people that it has happened to, in my opinion. The people I know who are famous are deeply insecure — there are exceptions, but in a lot of cases, that’s how it is.

On a lighter note, I’ve heard that you’re a bit of a gamer. Is that true?

When I was coming of age, I was playing a wide variety of stuff on my Xbox — Red Dead Redemption, the Halo series, Call Of Duty. I liked Alan Wake a lot. I played Gears Of War, and there was a game called Wolverine that was incredible.

I also played a lot of Super Smash Bros. growing up — that was a big game for me. I used to play as Fox on Melee, and then I played as Snake on Brawl. Then, because I’m a risk-taker, I always play as a random character on Ultimate. I feel like beating everybody with a random character is a flex.

But nowadays, I almost exclusively play Call Of Duty. I have a deeply, disturbingly addictive relationship with it — either I play for five hours in one day, or I play none for several months because it’s really just unsustainable. It’s all I would do if I weren’t careful.

So there have been people playing online with you, having no idea who you were?

Yeah, tons and tons. My buddy and I are both 24, and during COVID, we got really good at this game. We would decimate — we were formidable. We’d beat the other team, but then sometimes we’d hear their voices and realize, “Oh, good for us. We beat a bunch of 11-year-olds.” Then sometimes the 11-year-olds would totally kick our asses. It’s all hilarious, but I’m happy to be playing a little less often. It was playing too big of a role in my life.

Your new album is called Optimist, so as one last question, what hopes do you have for your near future?

Well, I’m about to start a national tour — I play a solo tour from the end of October to the end of November. I’m really excited about that. I hope the shows are a fun experience, that people come with their friends and sing along. Beyond that, I hope that people carry these songs through their lives. I hope that they identify with them and that these songs articulate how they’re feeling. That’s always my biggest goal.

This interview appeared in issue 399, available here.

And then they disappeared.

OK, they didn’t go completely radio silent—but they stopped touring and making music, offering little information about what they were up to or when they were coming back. What gives?

It turns out that after five straight years of recording and touring, the band were experiencing something we can all relate to: burnout. They tried to go back into the studio to write some new songs, but something just wasn’t right.

Read more: X’s John Doe talks recent ‘Alphabet’ LP, how to stay fresh and more

“After two or three months, we got a lot of starting points in a lot of different directions, but we didn’t think it was good enough,” lead vocalist Bert Poncet says. “At that point, we were like, ‘Hmm. Should we actually force it or take a little more time to process it? Maybe we should go back to normal life and come back to it later on.’”

That’s exactly what they did. And now, five years later, Chunk! are finally back with what could be the best work of their careers: Gone Are The Good Days, an absolute banger of an album and one of this summer’s most hotly anticipated releases.

Never content to settle for old patterns and formulas, Chunk! have pushed their creativity in exciting new directions. A couple of love songs find Poncet at his most vulnerable and heartfelt, while a surprise saxophone solo will leave your jaw on the floor. Even so, it’s still classic Chunk!: fun, bouncy choruses and brutal breakdowns, plus the perennial marvel of Poncet’s voice, which masterfully switches from soaring tenor to deep, guttural scream.

And with the end of the pandemic in sight, maybe Chunk!’s signature sound is exactly what we need. “I feel like a lot of people can relate to our music right now because that positive energy mixed with anger is where a lot of people are,” Poncet says. “They’re angry at the world, maybe at the government, and they want to party—but with some anger.”

Read more: It looks like a new Chunk! No, Captain Chunk! album is finally on the way

Chunk!’s music really does feel more timely than ever, so we sat down with Poncet to ask about which lyrics mean the most to him, why fans might be misunderstanding the album title and which Jedi he would pick as his master.

The pandemic has been a weird time for everybody, but especially for artists. Since you haven’t been playing shows, what have you been up to over the last year?

Well, I’m running a business, a recording studio called Alias—that’s actually where we produced the new album. But when France got locked down, all my clients for the entire year canceled. I have to be honest: I got really worried for a minute. I thought that I’d be running out of business and money.

But I actually got a lot of new clients. A lot of people started working from home because of COVID, so they started to pick up their guitars and jam a little bit. They would send me their tracks, and we worked on a few songs with them, so it was actually a busy year. My business is doing pretty well right now because of COVID, which is insane.

I feel like COVID has triggered some sort of creativity for everyone, even the ones that didn’t expect it. And for us, the fact that we had plenty of time to focus on songwriting is what made the new album so special.

Before we discuss the new album, I want to ask about your past. I was blown away when I learned that you have a law degree. Have you ever thought about what life would be like if you had decided to become a lawyer?

It would not be as fun as it is right now, that’s for sure. However, I don’t regret my studies. Even if it doesn’t sound very rock ’n’ roll, when you study law, it helps you structure your mind and your thoughts. I learned a lot, and now I can read a contract pretty well.

That probably came in handy for your record deals, right?

Definitely. But I have to say that I was not the best in my class. It took me four years to get a three-year degree, so I had to do one year twice. But then we got our deal with Fearless Records, and I’m glad I decided to do that instead. Because there was some pressure from my parents, [who were] saying, “Law is serious, so that’s what you should do.” But I knew that I wanted to at least give the band a shot and see how far we could go. Now here we are in 2021, with a fourth album and a couple of world tours, and my parents are very proud.

Let’s talk about the new album. You’ve indicated that some listeners might be misunderstanding a couple of the songs, like “Bitter” and “Gone Are The Good Days.” What impression have people been getting, and what message are you really trying to send?

So we chose the album title Gone Are The Good Days because it’s catchy and cool. But I’ve seen some comments saying, “What a sad title. You’re so pessimistic!” The initial idea was actually to think of nostalgia in a positive way because nostalgia doesn’t necessarily need to be sad. We all just had a rough year locked in our rooms, and I feel that looking back on all those good memories—like with friends at shows—cheers you up. It has helped a lot of my friends that were in a very bad place. So yeah, “gone are the good days” can sound a little sad, but that does not necessarily mean that the future is going to be dark or that the good days are definitely over. It’s just that we all have those good memories, the good old times that are really cool to remember.

That makes a lot of sense, and you see that in the lyrics of the title track. It goes, “Gone are the good days, but they stay with me always.” Speaking of lyrics, I’ve heard that your favorite lyric off the new album is from “True Colors,” and it’s a Shakespeare quote: “Heavy is the head that wears the crown.” What does that mean to you?

Well, first of all, I think it’s pretty classy to have Shakespeare in a song. In a way, I think everybody can relate to that quote. We all know that one guy who is always trying to take advantage of situations, and at some point, you’ve got to realize that those people are just not good to have around you—they’re toxic.

Read more: Listen to the songs that inspired Third Eye Blind’s ‘Our Bande Apart’

So the song is about trying to get rid of those toxic people and trying to understand who you are. We don’t have a very, very heavy track on the record, but if there is one, that might be it. It’s also very angry with the lyrics, and that’s an exception for us because we are always trying to put positivity in our lyrics. But this one is pure anger toward someone, especially those toxic people.

My favorite track on the album is probably “Tongue Tied,” in which you’re accompanied by a female vocalist. How did that collaboration happen?

Her name is Yvette Young, and her band, Covet, is not a Warped Tour sort of band that we’re all used to. However, she’s really famous in the guitar world. We got the opportunity to work with her because my brother [Eric Poncet, guitarist for Chunk!] works with D’Addario, and she’s sponsored by them. They got along really well, so my brother was like, “Hey, what about Yvette Young on this song?” And I was like, “Hell yeah!” She also plays all the violin parts on the record.

I’ve always enjoyed atmospheric sounds, so the beginning and end of “Tongue Tied” were recorded at night in our yard—it’s close to a road, so you can actually hear some cars passing through. The album has a lot of energy, so we wanted to have a little pause here to grab people’s attention even more.

I also hear you’re a big fan of Star Wars. If you could have any Jedi or Sith Lord train you in the ways of the Force, who would you choose?

I would go with Yoda, for sure. I just trust the experience from the old guy, you know? I actually watched The Mandalorian not long ago—I don’t know how I missed it, but I was so happy when I discovered it. The fact that they had Baby Yoda was genius; it felt like home instantly. 

I just trust the experience from older people in general, and I think that’s one thing that’s missing nowadays. I see a lot of the younger generation who think they’re better than the previous ones, that they know the world better than the older generations. But that’s not how I’ve been raised—I’ve been raised with teachers who were way older than me, and I could tell that that experience is not replaceable. That’s definitely the one thing you can trust: getting advice from experienced people.

One last question for you, Bert: What’s next for Chunk! No, Captain Chunk!?

We’re playing Slam Dunk Festival in the U.K. in September, but since the pandemic is still around, we don’t have a year-long schedule for touring and promoting the record, which is weird for us. But we take it as a challenge to maintain the hype around the album for as long as we can. So maybe we’ll do some livestreams, and we’ll definitely shoot some new music videos. Maybe we’ll write covers, and we’ll start writing a fifth record, for sure. But for now, I just really hope that people enjoy the new album.

As its title would suggest, the story is dark, intense and utterly metal. Now, DC Comics and Loma Vista Recordings have announced something huge: the Dark Nights: Death Metal soundtrack. It’s a first-of-its-kind collection of original songs inspired by the comic, adding an exciting dimension to the DC universe and expanding it into a new realm of storytelling.

Read more: 10 underrated metalcore albums that deserve another listen

What artists are releasing brand-new music on the soundtrack, you ask? Oh, you might recognize one or two names. There’s Rise Against, Chelsea Wolfe, Denzel Curry, Slayer’s Dave Lombardo, Chester Bennington’s pre-Linkin Park project Grey Daze, Mastodon, Chino Moreno from Deftones… And in their first-ever musical collaboration, Maria Brink from In This Moment teams up with Andy Biersack from Black Veil Brides. Yeah, it’s that good.

The soundtrack comes out digitally June 18 and physically July 16. You’ll find the full tracklist below:

1. Mastodon – “Forged By Neron”
2. Chelsea Wolfe – “Diana”
3. HEALTH, Tyler Bates – “ANTI-LIFE” (feat. Chino Moreno)
4. Maria Brink, Tyler Bates – “Meet Me In Fire” (feat. Andy Biersack)
5. Grey Daze – “Anything, Anything”
6. Rise Against – “Broken Dreams, Inc.”
7. Manchester Orchestra – “Never Ending”
8. Denzel Curry, PlayThatBoiZay – “Bad Luck”
9. Carach Angren – “Skull With A Forked Tongue”
10. Starcrawler – “Good Time Girl”
11. GUNSHIP, Tyler Bates – “Berserker” (feat. Dave Lombardo)
12. Greg Puciato, Tyler Bates, Gil Sharone – “Now You’ve Really Done It”
13. Show Me the Body – “Stone Cold Earth”
14. IDLES – “Sodium”
15. Soccer Mommy – “Kissing In The Rain”

Can’t wait until next month to start listening? You’re in luck—Rise Against’s “Broken Dreams, Inc.” has been out since September, and the album-opening track “Forged By Neron” from Grammy-winning metallers Mastodon just dropped today. The new song’s title references a demon lord of hell who appears throughout the series, and somehow that’s not even the heaviest thing about the song. Check it out here:

If you did a double take at the part about new music from the late Bennington’s Grey Daze, we can explain. The band have already released a cover of Dramarama’s 1985 track “Anything, Anything,” one that resonated deeply with Loma Vista president Tom Whalley. In fact, Whalley went out of his way to request that the song be included on the Dark Nights: Death Metal soundtrack, so Grey Daze headed into the studio to work on a new version. But don’t worry: They kept Bennington’s original vocals.

For all of you collectors out there, DC is also releasing other content: special editions of Dark Nights: Death Metal issues 1-3 featuring Rise Against, Grey Daze and Curry on the covers, which will be released alongside each artist’s respective flexi disc singles. And frankly, they look pretty sick:

As impressive as the lineup of artists is, none of this could have happened without the vision of a mastermind: composer and executive producer Tyler Bates, the man behind the music for movies such as 300, Watchmen, John Wick and Guardians Of The Galaxy. He originally recruited a number of the soundtrack’s artists for their help in creating the animated showcase of the comic, Sonic Metalverse, in which the visuals of Dark Nights: Death Metal are brought to life with cinematic sounds and top-notch voice acting.

You can watch it for free right now on YouTube, and it’s worth checking out for the all-star cast alone: Chelsea Wolfe plays Wonder Woman, Andy Biersack plays Batman and the legendary David Hasselhoff himself plays Superman. Even Curry and Tim McIlrath from Rise Against give voice acting a shot, playing Darkseid Batman and Lobo, respectively.

With so many talented musicians collaborating on Sonic Metalverse, it was inevitable that original music would emerge—especially because so many of them are fans of comics. Curry, Biersack and Andy Hull of Manchester Orchestra brought perhaps the deepest DC knowledge to the table, and Bates has joked that Curry in particular knew even more about Dark Nights than he did.

McIlrath grew up reading comics as well, and he believes that there’s a fundamental similarity between writing about superheroes and making music, a common mission that brought the whole project together: “In the end, all of us—musicians, comic book artists, writers—we’re all just storytellers,” he told us last year. “Everyone is telling a story… and within that story are themes about how they feel about humanity and the world around them and power and powerlessness and struggle. So there’s important stuff happening even in the pages of a Batman comic, just like there’s important stuff happening on the airwaves of the radio.”

Operating within the Dark Nights: Death Metal universe makes perfect sense for a socially and politically conscious artist like McIlrath. Writer Scott Snyder and illustrator Greg Capullo have created a fiction that intelligently mirrors reality, a point of view that’s also reflected in the companion tracks. “We are in a time where conspiracies and cults have become more influential than facts and truth,” Bates says. “The myriad concepts we now process daily—good vs. evil, truth vs. untruth, power vs. altruism, etc.—are baked into every note of music on this record. This is art imitating life.”

If you’re as psyched about this soundtrack as we are, it’s now available to preorder on digital download, CD and 2xLP—along with exclusive Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman vinyl variant covers, 11 limited-edition character trading cards and more. Whether you’re a fan of superheroes, heavy music or both, this is one album you won’t want to miss.

But in conversation, a very different Kadeem France emerges: easygoing, self-effacing, even downright cheerful. “When people speak to me offstage, they don’t expect me to be as outgoing as I am,” he says with a laugh. His musical influences may be dark, but he discusses them with a playful grin, clearly in love with what he does: “We’re big fans of horror and anything that shakes you to your core. But I’m numb to like 90% of horror films, so we try our hardest to really freak ourselves out.”

Read more: 40 new artists you need to hear in May

That being said, The Things They Believe, Loathe’s first instrumental album, doesn’t inspire gut-wrenching fear so much as an unnerving, reflective calm. The high-tech, synth-heavy ambiance creates a post-apocalyptic sense of melancholy, a soundtrack for wandering through empty streets and long-abandoned buildings. It’s as if the universe of Blade Runner or Cowboy Bebop has bled into the real, mutating the world into something dismal and strange—but kind of beautiful, too, if you know where to look.

Equally at home with both punishing breakdowns and cinematic atmospheres, France has cultivated a singular artistic sensibility. But what’s really going on inside his head? How has the pandemic changed the way he lives and creates? And what unique challenges does he face as a Black frontman in metal? We sat down with France to find out.

With song titles such as “Perpetual Sunday Evening” and “The Year Everything And Nothing Happened,” this album seems to reflect the isolation brought on by the pandemic. Was that part of the goal?

We’ve actually always wanted to do something like this, like a soundtrack to a movie with loads of different cool soundscapes. And once lockdown happened, it was like, “OK, this makes sense.” It just went with the vibe of what was going on.

Since The Things They Believe doesn’t have any vocals, how involved were you in the making of the record?

Well, from the beginning, we knew it was going to be Feisal [El-Khazragi, bassist] and Erik [Bickerstaffe, guitarist] who were mainly working on it because they’re the two people who do the ambient sounds for all of our music. Every now and again, we’d meet up, have a listen together and put our own little touch on it, but primarily, it was Feisal and Erik who did it all.

With all of the madness that’s going on, in a way, it feels like the perfect meditation album. I’m hoping it will be something to help put people at ease—we even released incense sticks and candles with it because we want people to just press play, light some incense and have some time for yourself.

I love the album title, The Things They Believe. What’s one thing you believe that most people may not?

I believe that everyone has a specific type of energy and that people who have certain types of energy gravitate toward each other. I don’t believe in a god or anything, but I believe in a higher power. When I was younger, I used to be like, “Oh, there’s no such thing as God.” But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve realized the beauty in life and that there has to be a higher being for all this to be true.

I also have this crazy theory… It’s not something I believe, but it’s something I think would make a sick film. You know how every planet in our solar system is in some sort of extreme state, like you can’t live there because of this or that? My theory is that there were once civilizations on every single one of those planets—but they all got really advanced in technology, to the point where there was a massive nuclear war that exploded the planet and left it in that extreme state. And we’re the last planet to go.

As a Black artist, do you feel like the heavy music world has become more or less inclusive over time?

For me, the heavy music scene has always been very inclusive and welcoming. But with it being a white-dominated genre, I’ve still had my times of feeling uncomfortable—just being the only Black person in the room can sometimes make me feel on edge.

But now with artists like UnityTX, Nova Twins and Bloodbather, I’m seeing a lot of new bands that are either fronted by a Black person or have someone else Black in the band. It gives me hope for the future. If I wasn’t in a band and I was going to shows now, seeing so many Black faces would let me know that, “Yo, I can be in a band.” That’s always been very important for me, showing that Black people can do that. You don’t have to fit into this one thing that everyone expects from you.

Could you tell us about a racially charged experience that made you uncomfortable?

This one time we were going to play a festival in Europe, and we had just gotten to the artist parking area. We get out of the van and start walking toward the catering area for food, and there are these three security guards standing outside of it. As we walk past, one of them puts his fist up and goes, “White power!”

And at first, we all walk past and carry on, but soon it fully sinks in. Like, “We actually just heard that.” And then we all start freaking out like, “Yo, are we at some Nazi festival?” Erik is like, “We’re not playing. We’re going home,” and everyone else is like, “Yeah, this is too much.” But I’m like, “Let’s calm down. Maybe he didn’t say it. Maybe we just misheard him.”

So we eat and start walking back toward the security guards. As we walk past them, again he says, “White power!” So at this point, I’m like, “Nah, I didn’t hear him wrong. He definitely said that.” So I stop, and I’m like, “Yo, what did you just say?” And I don’t think he knew I was Black or something because his face dropped. And he’s like, “Oh, it’s a joke… I’m just joking around.” And I’m like, “Nah, that’s not funny. I don’t find that funny at all.” And then he shut up.

So then I storm off, and I’m fuming. I’m like, “I don’t wanna play this festival. I don’t feel comfortable here.” Now I’m looking around at people like, “Why is he looking at me so weirdly? Is that guy racist?” When you’re the only Black person around and that happens, it’s so hard to not be paranoid and think that everyone’s against you.

So we call our manager, and he gets in contact with the head of security. This 7-foot security guy eventually comes over to us and is like, “Is that the guy over there?” And I’m like, “Yeah, that’s him.” And he’s like, “Don’t worry, he doesn’t work for us anymore. If anyone says anything to you again, you come to me, and I’ll break their neck.”

We ended up playing the festival, and it was actually a really good day after that. But things like that have happened quite a bit—I just try to keep the right people around me. I know for a fact that anyone in the band would use their white voice to help me out if anything was to happen, so I’m glad to have the friends that I have.

What an awful experience—but it’s great that your friends have your back. With tours starting back up again, this feels like a potential reset moment for the music industry as a whole. How can bands and fans use this pivotal time to make the scene more inclusive?

Just make sure people know that where they are is a safe space—I’ve always felt like the heavy scene is very welcoming anyway, but just making that known. Bands like Stray From The Path will say stuff onstage like, “This is not a place for racism, so if you’re about that, there’s the door.” Seeing things like that makes me feel a lot more comfortable. Just preach love, not hate.